Has Rivian lost the battle AND the war?

[997.2]

I'm looking forward to opening a can of whoop ass on my neighbor with a Lamborghini Urus at 40% of his cost.

Good goal! I saw an Urus the other day on the road. Looks so horrible in pics but it actually looked pretty svelte person. So he might have you in style points....

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[flush]

It's an MB SUV, it won't be $100k..... it'll be a $120k-130k car.

Rivian will have its place.... if it can survive being a niche small volume (<50k vehicles) for the next 2-3 years, will be very tough. RJ already gave a warning a few days ago, about the impending EV battery shortage with such high demand. The R1T and R1S both use significantly larger batteries than other EV models, that's definitely going to impact volume production, especially more so for a max pack.

am in for a R1T max pack as well .... am praying I can get it next year, figure the odds are 50-50.

 

[997.2]

The R1T and R1S both use significantly larger batteries than other EV models, that's definitely going to impact volume production, especially more so for a max pack.

am in for a R1T max pack as well .... am praying I can get it next year, figure the odds are 50-50.

The battery size is really a big deal actually. I have a pre-order for a reason and the the battery is a BIG reason. It makes the truck pretty equivalent to a gas/diesel counterparts. It has just enough range to not make it a tradeoff making for local around-the-state towing. There are other reasons of course, like it's the perfect size alternativ eto today hulking pickups.....

 

[lostpacket]

So I guess you could take into account all sorts of factors: competition, supply constraints, range, market buyer segments, market cap, inflation, cash flow.

But can we really ignore the most important factor?

As of now there is only ONE company that makes a truck that looks like my forum avatar.

Game over, auto manufacturers with names that don't rhyme with "Bivian"

 

[bd5400]

No but I never said that. Referring to the R1T. The Ioniq 5 is definitely NOT a competitor to the R1S...but that's not the point. The R1S is floating in the Netherland of the car market. It fits nowhere. It's outclassed in luxury IMO and the middle market can't afford it. Again, TODAY, who choses to the R1S as their SUV EV of choice. A niche few imo.

I don't really understand your logic with saying that the Ioniq 5 and EQS SUV aren't fair comparisons to the R1S yet you also insist that only a niche few would choose the R1S over either of those.

I think you're also vastly undervaluing the R1S's position and thinking too narrowly about the potential market. As others have mentioned, the R1S is going to appeal to a wide variety of people who currently drive vehicles such as the Grand Cherokee, 4Runner, GX 460, Discovery, Defender, Tahoe, X5, Q7, Range Rover Sport, Explorer, Armada, etc. Not all of those comparisons are equal, but those vehicles, and more, could be conceivably cross-shopped with an R1S.

Who choses an R1S over an Ioniq 5?

• People who can afford a nicer car than the Ioniq 5
• People who want 7 seats
• People who want to off-road
• People who want the ability to off-road, even if they don't
• People who want a vehicle that is vastly more powerful and quicker
• People who want more range
• People who prefer the more traditional boxy SUV aesthetic
• People who want a higher seating position
• People who prefer SUVs to more car-like crossovers
• People who want a nicer interior
• ...and I'm sure there are other factors.

Who chooses an R1S over an EQS SUV?

• People who can't afford the EQS SUV
• People who don't want to pay for an EQS SUV
• People who dislike the looks of the EQS SUV
• People who want more off-road capability
• People who want a more subtle badge
• People who want speed/performance for a cheaper price compared to the EQS SUV
• People who prefer the more traditional SUV shape
• ...and more.

This is not to say that the Ioniq 5 or EQS SUV aren't great vehicles, but they in no way take away from what the R1S has to offer and there are plenty of people who would choose the R1S in a heartbeat over either of them.

 

[E.S.]

Was this poll even necessary?

 

[997.2]

So I guess you could take into account all sorts of factors: competition, supply constraints, range, market buyer segments, market cap, inflation, cash flow.

But can we really ignore the most important factor?

As of now there is only ONE company that makes a truck that looks like my forum avatar.

Game over, auto manufacturers with names that don't rhyme with "Bivian"

There are a lot of stupid reasons to buy or not buy a vehicle...but this is not one of them. You might think I say this tongue-in-cheek but I'm not. I'm serious. This is a perfectly valid & geniune for reasons I can't quite articulate cause I'm tired....

 

[997.2]

Was this poll even necessary?

Funny! Well I was bored, had a thought and the moderator approved my account. If necessity was the benchmark...none of us would be ordering a Rivian!

 

[Zoidz]

With that background and to the point.. I was reading the news today of the arrival of the Mercedes EQS EV SUV in showrooms later this year. No pricing yet but likely around $100k. Then there is the Hyundai Ioniq 5 around $55k. Both sharp looking SUV EVs. Then you have the R1S with a base price of $79k to upwards of $90k for an Quad Motor equip Adventure R1S. So I pose the question...for someone shopping for an SUV EV today...who would choose an R1S to put a deposit on? It strikes me that the answer is "no one." The R1S is so very misplaced in the marketplace; it doesn't seem to fit anywhere. Mercedes has luxury sewed up at the moment with EQS in my mind. Hyundai will dominate the mid market almost certainly. Maybe for a select few niche buyers R1S I suppose..because they want a tank turn?

The R1S fits just fine in the marketplace, you choose not to see it. The EQS isn't competition to the R1S, nor is the Ioniq 5. Rivian wll do just fine.

"In a crowded marketplace, fitting in is a failure. In a busy marketplace, not standing out is the same as being invisible." - Seth Godin

 

[997.2]

The R1S fits just fine in the marketplace, you choose not to see it. The EQS isn't competition to the R1S, nor is the Ioniq 5. Rivian wll do just fine.

"In a crowded marketplace, fitting in is a failure. In a busy marketplace, not standing out is the same as being invisible." - Seth Godin

Oh no, a Seth Godin fan! I get enough proselytizing on Sunday. Get me outta here. j/k

 

[SeaGeo]

No pricing yet but likely around $100k.

You realize the EQS sedan starts at 125k, right? You honestly think the SUV will be less expensive?

Honestly, the better question may be how does the model Y fit in anymore? For about 10k more than the Model Y performance the dual motor R1S is significantly larger, likely similar quickness, more capable, and similar range. Plus it looks better.

The Ioniq 5 is a different market period. It's honestly a large hatch. The better comparison will be how much the EV9 costs.

 

[lg3103]

The SUV and Truck market is huge. How much of a market share does Rivian need to succeed...a 835 HP 7-seater SUV doesn't compete against an Ioniq5 or ID4. It doesn't even compete directly against an EQS SUV. The R1 models are flagship models just like the Tesla Model S was back in the day. Rivian will start adding cheaper volume models in the years to come. The cheaper versions of the R1 are just a lower tier before they can add cheaper models like the Y and 3.
Let's see how long it takes until the California Private School soccer moms start replacing their Range Rovers with "environmentally" conscious R1Ss...a Mercedes GLS, BMW X7, Range Rover, etc. are all well into the 100s especially if they are motorized anywhere near the R1S...the higher level EQS SUV won't start below $130k and that's before the 30-page options list.
The R1S at the early reservation price is the best value you can get out there, especially with the $7,500 federal credit and thousands of $$ in state credits on top.
In Colorado, the R1S LE is $65,500 after tax credits for a 0-60 in 3s 7-seater SUV with air suspension, and the reviews the R1T has gotten...what's not to like...my Porsche Cayenne GTS feels like an under motorized Ford after test driving the R1T and a brand new GTS with 453 HP and 4.5s 0-60 costs $109k and Porsche is famous for the long options list...the only thing cheaper on the Porsche will be paint and wheels...the rest will easily take you to $130k.

 

[mgc0216]

I wasn't comparing it. I was using it as an example of how misplaced the R1S is in the market place. Doesn't fit in the middle (too expensive) doesn't fit at the top (too nichy and outclassed in luxury).

Ummm - that is comparing it.

Beyond that: SUV is a really overloaded term. I definitely would not cross shop those vehicles because neither are designed to go off road. If i was going to cross shop I would be looking at ICE vehicles - in particular the defender because there are no announced 7 seater EVs aimed at what in want: equally capable on and off road with a refined interior.

So, no they are not misplaced in the market - in fact they have been very deliberate about what they have created and who their customer is.

Now whether or not there is a big enough addressable market remains to be seen.

 

[SeaGeo]

It's impressive how consistently people think this is a bad take. Even for here.

 

[san diego rivian]

I'm am lucky enough to have had a Rivian R1T for almost three weeks. The launch addition is unquestionable a model year product with a kinks that need to be worked out. That said, it is one of the most incredible vehicles I have ever driven. It brings an unrivaled joy to driving, and appears to be able to go anywhere. To think that they could get so much right in the first year of production is mind blowing. One of the things I wish Rivian focused on was how good the vehicle on the mundane aspects of daily driving. The view from cockpit,for example, is incredibly expandive, and is rivaled only by the range rover. The gear tunnel is perfectly positioned for loading groceries or anything else that you would prefer not to stuff in the back seat. The Alexis integration actually works. If rivian can keep up the good work without any more major screw ups, it's absolutely here to last

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