More 12V Problems - Always Keep Your R1T Plugged

[SoCal Rob]

If this got picked up by the media it wouldn’t be a good look for Rivian. Not being able to leave your capable adventure vehicle with a high state of charge out for a week while traveling? Imagine if this was happening to the Ford lightning.. news would be picking up that electric trucks can only sit around a few days at a time without being plugged in.

Yeah, in my opinion it is a CYA which is poorly-executed in writing, and, as relayed by the customer, poorly explained by the employee.

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[kwgeo]

This is BS. I live in a condo with no plug in possible, as do many people. My truck (delivered Oct. 2022) is often unused when I'm away, sometimes for weeks at a time. I always make sure the big battery has more than 20% SOC. There is nothing in Rivian advice or instructions suggesting this poses an problem. And I've had none. The 12v charges from the big battery. If there's a problem for cases like this, it's defective 12v battery, or a Rivian design deflect.

 

[Dark-Fx]

If this is directly from Rivian,”12-volt batteries may be damaged or drained if the vehicle is left unplugged for an extended time.” then I think they need to define “an extended time” as an objective duration (e.g. more than 2 weeks) in order to enforce it.

I don't think they do, because it's highly dependent on the SoC you left the vehicle at and what you had the vehicle doing. If you left it for 3 weeks at 5% SoC, it should be obvious enough that it could potentially cause issues from being unplugged, the warranty guide is just informing you of that. Rivian should be indicating this requirement in their owner's guide, however, and they are.

I should note that the originally quoted text was part of the update of their warranty guide that happened on June 7th, 2023. The language isn't present in previous warranty guides so it technically only applies to vehicles sold since then. Rivian has done a lot to reduce instances of dead 12V batteries that they caused, and they likely have improved their ability to determine fault here as well.

Elsewhere in the warranty guide it also mentions this stuff, that has been there since the first version:

Exclusions and Limitations:
...
In addition, damage or the malfunction of the vehicle or any of its component parts is not covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty when caused by the following:
...
Using the vehicle for purposes other than those for which it was designed including using the vehicle for long- term stationary power backup or supply.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

This is BS. I live in a condo with no plug in possible, as do many people. My truck (delivered Oct. 2022) is often unused when I'm away, sometimes for weeks at a time. I always make sure the big battery has more than 20% SOC. There is nothing in Rivian advice or instructions suggesting this poses an problem. And I've had none. The 12v charges from the big battery. If there's a problem for cases like this, it's defective 12v battery, or a Rivian design deflect.

Agree, this needs to be clarified if the they're going to start dishonoring warranties. Picking mine up today and we have L2 chargers in the garage, but it can't just sit there when not charging. Sometimes I go days without driving. My plan is to charge to 70% (as recommended by Rivian) and recharge anytime it drops below 40% (might be a few days in between charging depending on usage).

If that's really not good enough to keep 12v battery warranty in force then Rivian needs to specify the exact requirements.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Since the 12v is maintained by the HV battery one must plan for this of course. In the case of the OP should have been fine.

To leave it for a long period does require more advanced planning. I believe it will maintain the 12v only down to a certain SOC. Also, things like GG should be turned off to minimize vampire drain.

 

[Craigins]

yeah people are missing the point, the 12 battery is maintained by the HV system. The OP had plenty of charge in the HV system and the vehicle simply chose not to maintain the 12V battery. This is completely on the Rivian software/hardware. I can't imagine they'd duplicate 12v charging hardware to maintain the 12V battery directly from the DC or inverter system while plugged in. In the OP case, the 12v would have died plugged in anyways.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I don't think they do, because it's highly dependent on the SoC you left the vehicle at and what you had the vehicle doing. If you left it for 3 weeks at 5% SoC, it should be obvious enough that it could potentially cause issues from being unplugged, the warranty guide is just informing you of that. Rivian should be indicating this requirement in their owner's guide, however, and they are.

I should note that the originally quoted text was part of the update of their warranty guide that happened on June 7th, 2023. The language isn't present in previous warranty guides so it technically only applies to vehicles sold since then. Rivian has done a lot to reduce instances of dead 12V batteries that they caused, and they likely have improved their ability to determine fault here as well.

Elsewhere in the warranty guide it also mentions this stuff, that has been there since the first version:

If it depends on the SoC then they should write guidance in SoC% rather than time. Their Caution wording including “almost empty” and “extended time” makes the content nearly useless. We all know people who think almost empty = 1% and other people who think almost empty is anything below half.

In the final part you quoted, what is “long- term,” considered? Again, this should probably be specific. e.g. More than 3 days or when down to 20% charge, whichever comes first.

Ultimately, a vehicle with the monitoring and notification capability of a Rivian should never be relying on humans to remember these kinds of limitations and vigilantly monitor them. That’s what the tech is for. Automatically protecting 12V batteries from run-down in vehicles has been an available feature since the last century.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

If it depends on the SoC then they should write guidance in SoC% rather than time. Their Caution wording including “almost empty” and “extended time” makes the content nearly useless. We all know people who think almost empty = 1% and other people who think almost empty is anything below half.

In the final part you quoted, what is “long- term,” considered? Again, this should probably be specific. e.g. More than 3 days or when down to 20% charge, whichever comes first.

Ultimately, a vehicle with the monitoring and notification capability of a Rivian should never be relying on humans to remember these kinds of limitations and vigilantly monitor them. That’s what the tech is for. Automatically protecting 12V batteries from run-down in vehicles has been an available feature since the last century.

100% this. Instead of employees coming up with their own terms here Rivian needs to set some guidelines in stone and let everyone know what proper operation is. I totally get that at a low SOC you cannot leave the vehicle sit for very long or you might wind up with dead batteries but we need some guidelines. It cannot be (if the vehicle is fine after leaving it the SOC was enough, but if the vehicle is not fine it was your fault). That is not an acceptable or legally defensible position.

As you say the SOC or the days asleep need to be quantified. Am I going to be screwed with 70% SOC leaving it for a week at an airport? That's the kind of things people need to know and before Rivian starts denying warranty claims they need to have things like this clarified. If they warranty it 100% of the time then fine, get them to fix it. The second they start telling you that user error is to blame they must define proper operation and vagaries doesn't cut it.

And I'll also tell you that for as much as I love the truck if I cannot leave it for a week at a reasonable state of charge without risking battery death and an out of pocket expense this vehicle isn't for me. This whole thread has me paranoid that my wife's upcoming BMW is going to suffer the same fate but over on the i4 forum people are leaving their car for MONTHS with no appreciable battery drain and no death of the 12V system.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Rivian’s do not need to be plugged in when not in use. It has always been a recommendation to leave all EV’s plugged in when you can but not mandatory started with Tesla. When a 12 volt system goes dead and there is a significant charge in the traction battery there is another problem with the 12 volt charging circuitry that needs to be addressed

 

[NY_Rob]

This whole thread has me paranoid that my wife's upcoming BMW is going to suffer the same fate but over on the i4 forum people are leaving their car for MONTHS with no appreciable battery drain and no death of the 12V system.

I wouldn't worry about the BMW.. if they used similar logic as they used in the i3 it won't be an issue. Our i3 sat in a body shop (90% of the time outdoors in Dec and Jan) for 6 weeks and only lost a few percent off the main battery. Also, there were absolutely no ill effects suffered by the 12v battery by sitting for 6 weeks without ever charging the vehicle.

 

[SoCal Rob]

100% this. Instead of employees coming up with their own terms here Rivian needs to set some guidelines in stone and let everyone know what proper operation is. I totally get that at a low SOC you cannot leave the vehicle sit for very long or you might wind up with dead batteries but we need some guidelines. It cannot be (if the vehicle is fine after leaving it the SOC was enough, but if the vehicle is not fine it was your fault). That is not an acceptable or legally defensible position.

As you say the SOC or the days asleep need to be quantified. Am I going to be screwed with 70% SOC leaving it for a week at an airport? That's the kind of things people need to know and before Rivian starts denying warranty claims they need to have things like this clarified. If they warranty it 100% of the time then fine, get them to fix it. The second they start telling you that user error is to blame they must define proper operation and vagaries doesn't cut it.

And I'll also tell you that for as much as I love the truck if I cannot leave it for a week at a reasonable state of charge without risking battery death and an out of pocket expense this vehicle isn't for me. This whole thread has me paranoid that my wife's upcoming BMW is going to suffer the same fate but over on the i4 forum people are leaving their car for MONTHS with no appreciable battery drain and no death of the 12V system.

What you wrote makes me think that our Rivians could benefit from a variation of the range guesstimate: remaining battery life, especially if you are setting the vehicle in shipping mode or using it in camp mode. Give people an estimate in days with a disclaimer that temperatures below x° and above y° will reduce the remaining battery life by z%. Explain that draining the battery below 3% (or whatever) may render the vehicle unusable and require out-of-warranty service which will be the customer’s financial responsibility.

The app should provide notifications well in advance, provided vehicle and app both have connectivity, which is less likely in remote areas.
Edith:typo

 

[R1TruKaLa]

Hey All,

TLDR - Always Keep Your R1T Plugged In

I haven't posted in a while since I've been generally happy with my R1T. However I am pretty incensed right now and wanted to let you all know about my experience.

I left my vehicle unattended for roughly 8 days, from July 25 until today August 2nd. It wasn't plugged in and I had left it with 80% charge.

When I checked last night August 1st, I still had 64% left, and this morning August 2nd, it was at 62%.

I saw a bunch of 12v errors and vehicle battery issues and proceeded to call Rivian Service. They had me reboot the vehicle and when it came back up, my vehicle showed 46% battery and more critical faults.

I couldn't put the vehicle in drive since the brakes wouldn't release even though it recognized my key and I lost power steering. The brakes also made a nice crunchy sound and was very hard to depress.

I was told depending on what they find at the service center that I may be responsible for the associated costs for this repair and car rental because I didn't have my R1T plugged in for the week I was away.

I'm awaiting a tow now to the service center even though their earliest appointment is for Aug 11.

Thought all the 12V issues were solved but I guess they aren't.

I'm really starting to sour on Rivian.


maybe related - I've called in to the service line for other issues about a month ago when I noticed incorrectly displayed range and overcharging. I was told since it's software and not a pressing problem they won't schedule an appt to have it looked at.

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[R1TruKaLa]

that shit makes no sense at all. i'll be pissed if this is not under warranty. I did call customer service about 2 months ago regarding leave the vehicle at airport for 10 days. They adviced me not to do it. Didn't say much else though

??

 

[zefram47]

Since the 12v is maintained by the HV battery one must plan for this of course. In the case of the OP should have been fine.

To leave it for a long period does require more advanced planning. I believe it will maintain the 12v only down to a certain SOC. Also, things like GG should be turned off to minimize vampire drain.

This actually begs the question...at what state of charge on the HV pack will an R1 stop maintaining the 12V batteries?! I'm not remembering the actual number, but I think Ford stops charging the 12V battery below 20% SoC or similar. Not sure that Rivian has actually published this info for the R1 yet.

 

[r1vlife]

My truck is now back in my hands. The secondary 12V had an internal short which they replaced under warranty and I was told there is no charge for the tow and rental.

I still don't understand the CYA language especially when I clearly didn't drain the HV pack and let the 12V die.

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