Dual vs Dual performance

[mrau]

Is the Performance Dual only faster than Standard Dual when it is in Sport mode?

When in All Purpose do they both have the same 0-60?

That may sway some decisions as well.

I see the Standard Dual only list 3 modes: All Purpose, Snow & All Terrain.

The Performance Dual modes has the same 3 modes plus Sport and Soft Sand.

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

You won't know the difference. Don't overthink it and give yourself a case of FOMO. Save the cost difference, especially if you are financing. By far, 533 hp and 610 ft-lb of the standard already exceed your needs.

 

[Magicbus]

Interesting that non-performance has sand mode because when I was ordering it specifically did not, at least on the R1T. I’m pretty sure the only difference in sand mode is the throttle and regen behavior which would only be noticeable in truly soft sand.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Yes. I agree the performance will perform better for speed and acceleration on hard road. The guy at the dealership was recommending the performance because it has soft sand mode while the dual standard does not. I would imagine they wouldn't necessarily be identical on sand but my thinking is will the standard be good enough since I'm not planning any extreme sand conditions. Thanks for your input.

Soft sand, from my understanding is for deep sand...if your going to be tackling dunes then it might be usable but otherwise I can't see recommending the up charge. It's really up to you, you do get some extra drive mode and yes full power is only available in sport mode.

Here is more on "soft sand" mode

https://stories.rivian.com/software-update-soft-sand-mode

Then a comparison between different motor options.

https://rivian.com/support/article/...al-motor-awd-performance-dual-motor-awd-and-q

Lastly the soft sand must be a recent change. It's not even listed in the support article for any dual motor variants.

 

[R1Tom]

You won't know the difference. Don't overthink it and give yourself a case of FOMO. Save the cost difference, especially if you are financing. By far, 533 hp and 610 ft-lb of the standard already exceed your needs.

I am opposite....bought a few vehicles in my life thinking same and got rid of them quick when the higher performing model I should have got....became available. One just has to know their own psyche and for me....if a higher performing model exists...I better pony up or regret sets in quick.

 

[teartags]

Soft sand, from my understanding is for deep sand...if your going to be tackling dunes then it might be usable but otherwise I can't see recommending the up charge. It's really up to you, you do get some extra drive mode and yes full power is only available in sport mode.

Here is more on "soft sand" mode

https://stories.rivian.com/software-update-soft-sand-mode

Then a comparison between different motor options.

https://rivian.com/support/article/...al-motor-awd-performance-dual-motor-awd-and-q

Lastly the soft sand must be a recent change. It's not even listed in the support article for any dual motor variants.

Interesting. According to that link, Soft Sand is not listed below EITHER of the Dual models. So maybe my regular dual is a collector's item! Even though I'm pretty sure I'll NEVER use Sand mode here in CO....

 

[feifan]

Is the Performance Dual only faster than Standard Dual when it is in Sport mode?

When in All Purpose do they both have the same 0-60?

That may sway some decisions as well.

I see the Standard Dual only list 3 modes: All Purpose, Snow & All Terrain.

The Performance Dual modes has the same 3 modes plus Sport and Soft Sand.

I have a Performance Dual — haven't compared it to a non-Performance, but acceleration in All Purpose is a tad sluggish IMO. Between the throttle response curve and the down-rated motor output (vs Sport mode), it definitely doesn't have the same pick-up-and-go feel from my previous Model 3. The acceleration and throttle response is noticeably perkier in Sport mode.

Also, apparently the non-Performance doesn't have the Lowest suspension height, in case that matters to you.

 

[nowax]

I have a PD R1S. I've driven it in deep sand and it worked incredibly well. I didn't even deflate the tires.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Interesting. According to that link, Soft Sand is not listed below EITHER of the Dual models. So maybe my regular dual is a collector's item! Even though I'm pretty sure I'll NEVER use Sand mode here in CO....

They might have just forgotten to update site content. Wouldn't be first time. The other instance is on the wristband key, which is Launch Edition only. But new owners still get comms stating it will be available [to all] through the Gear Shop (which is outdated info by well over a year).

I am opposite....bought a few vehicles in my life thinking same and got rid of them quick when the higher performing model I should have got....became available. One just has to know their own psyche and for me....if a higher performing model exists...I better pony up or regret sets in quick.

Yes, that may be so... for you. OP's situation and desires are different:

I will primarily be using it for road driving and maybe the occasional dirt road, gravel road or snowy road.

I’m also not too concerned about high performance or speed.

Sounds to me the perfect fit is a Standard Dual with 21" wheel package + snow socks, or a winter set of 20" wheels with 275/60R20 winter tires (with the correct load index).

Squirting from 0-60 in short order sure is fun. But even with 533 hp/610 ft-lb, it's quicker than most cars on the road. It's quicker than what you think is possible with a 7,000+ lb 3-row SUV.

I have a Performance Dual — haven't compared it to a non-Performance, but acceleration in All Purpose is a tad sluggish IMO. Between the throttle response curve and the down-rated motor output (vs Sport mode), it definitely doesn't have the same pick-up-and-go feel from my previous Model 3. The acceleration and throttle response is noticeably perkier in Sport mode.

Also, apparently the non-Performance doesn't have the Lowest suspension height, in case that matters to you.

Model 3 is approximately a whopping 3,000 lbs lighter. Of course it feels more spritely. Physics. It takes more power and work to move more weight.

I took delivery of my 20" AT Quad-Large in mid July. I think I've only used lowest a handful of times. All Purpose is plenty fast and Sport Mode or lowest right height just mean more tire wear (because of additional negative camber). Losing it is not a big deal.

 

[R1Tom]

Yes, that may be so... for you. OP's situation and desires are different:



Sounds to me the perfect fit is a Standard Dual with 21" wheel package + snow socks, or a winter set of 20" wheels with 275/60R20 winter tires.

I agree. With that list anything more than standard offering is unnecessary.

 

[bukowm]

I had the same anxiety when deciding whether to buy the performance dual vs standard. I ended up spending the extra money on the all terrain package so I’d have 20 inch rims for more tire variety. Having the spare is nice too. I don’t regret my decision. I don’t think I’d drive in sport mode much. I would definitely not drive in low ride height. That’s way to bouncy for me.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I had the same anxiety when deciding whether to buy the performance dual vs standard. I ended up spending the extra money on the all terrain package so I’d have 20 inch rims for more tire variety. Having the spare is nice too. I don’t regret my decision. I don’t think I’d drive in sport mode much. I would definitely not drive in low ride height. That’s way to bouncy for me.

Tire situation is already changing for the 21s. Michelin is coming out with a compatible Defender LT M/S. Several threads on this. Chances are by the time OP burns through a stock set of Pirellis, more options will be available.

Swapping the 20s' ATs for a set of ASs can also gain back some of the efficiency/range lost, not all. When range is king, and occasional mild off-roading is the plan, 21" package is still the way. Another advantage of 21s (over 20s) is less sidewall and lateral deflection (side shimmy, wallowing) when pushed hard in corners.

I picked 20" AT because I do plan on doing more than mild off-roading. What I've said above is based what I know of tires, not personal bias.

 

[feifan]

Model 3 is approximately a whopping 3,000 lbs lighter. Of course it feels more spritely. Physics. It takes more power and work to move more weight.

About the same power-to-weight though (~350hp in my 2020 Model 3, ~650hp in my PDM R1T, although less than that in All-Purpose).

I was mostly talking about the pedal response curve though. As far as I can tell, the Rivian feeds in power on an "ease in" curve that can lag behind the pedal if you push the pedal hard, whereas the Model 3 had a more linear response (you stab the accelerator, and you get a stab of acceleration). The Rivian also feels like it has a bigger "slow zone" at the beginning of the pedal curve; I feel like I have to push the pedal a little further and harder than in the Model 3 to maintain highway speed.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I was mostly talking about the pedal response curve though...

Then that's more to do with how they mapped the throttle pedal. Not to do with max power output of the drivetrain. 7,000+ lbs. For sake of safety and management of liability, they have to play it safe and make sure the mapping isn't too aggressive/responsive for some drivers. Or, face accusations of unintended acceleration. The R1's stiff throttle pedal is done for same reason. All manufacturers do this to a degree—design/build to the lowest common denominator. Some more conservative than others. And Tesla has a long record of throwing caution to the wind.

 

[bukowm]

Tire situation is already changing for the 21s. Michelin is coming out with a compatible Defender LT M/S. Several threads on this. Chances are by the time OP burns through a stock set of Pirellis, more options will be available.

Swapping the 20s' ATs for a set of ASs can also gain back some of the efficiency/range lost, not all. When range is king, and occasional mild off-roading is the plan, 21" package is still the way. Another advantage of 21s (over 20s) is less sidewall and lateral deflection (side shimmy, wallowing) when pushed hard in corners.

I picked 20" AT because I do plan on doing more than mild off-roading. What I've said above is based what I know of tires, not personal bias.

That’s likely true. I like the look of the AT tires better. That probably influenced my decision more than anything. Range isn’t incredibly important to me.

With respect to OP and PDM…I test drove a quad and and was worried I might not be happy with the performance of standard DM. Yep quad is faster. I’m sure PDM is almost as fast. DM isn’t exactly slow.

It’s too bad they don’t have DM to test drive. I think that would help people make the decision.

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