Q3 2024 Production / Delivery Numbers… Not good

[Florida Panhandler]

I;ve said it here before but got skewered, but here it is again- Rivian needs to admit defeat in their go-it -alone approach and formerly team up with a Dealer Network. VW would seem like the natural choice at this point but who knows what VW is going through internally these days. there are just too many consumers who will not buy a car unless it is from a dealer for various reasons. Not to mention to continued ban on sales by individual states that Rivian needs to expand. Yes, dealers suck. But at least here in the Us, reality often sucks. Reality dictates what needs to be done, not pipe dreams. Time to dealer up.

Sponsored

 

[bfilippo]

Everything is against them. Setting aside the general policy sentiment toward EV's, but supply chain monopolies, dealership lobbies, etc, etc, etc.

I am a new owner and have had a Tesla Model Y for about a year. I think Rivian is clearly doing some things that could be improved significantly, but given how long they have actually been making cars, I think they're doing great! Look at the Tesla's from years 2, 3, 4, etc.

Price point is difficult, but the Kia EV9 with similar quality trim is not much less than R1S (also no tax credit and dealership experience that at least rivals whatever bs Rivian has with SC's), and Lightning is similar in price to R1T and their UI and drive experience is not quite there, despite being 100 year old company with all the resources in the world.

Just my new customer POV.

 

[JCBAZ]

The R2 needs to be out like yesterday.

If you believe, it may be time to double down. I have bought higher and I have bought lower. About even right now

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

As others have mentioned, I think RJ will have to waive the white-flag and shift to a dealer model for sales and support. The truth is they were unfortunate on timing of market entry. Late deliverables and premium pricing, coupled with subpar quality and service.

Only early adopters can tolerate these shortcomings, after those, the general SUV market isn't going to tolerate the current woes. You can't pick up a phone and talk to a local service manager for an update on your vehicle, which is what 99% of American's have always done. You can't even speak to someone to actually purchase one....anyway...you oldies know the drill.

Rivian will survive, just not in the original RJ model. I'm sorry RJ, you're going to need to pivot and quickly. As I've noted for 2.5 years, they should be looking at acquisition possibilities, if they aren't already.......

 

[shap]

I"m thinking ownership window of 5-8 years, not 3-4. So that includes long term reliability and repair costs (which pretty much eliminates Land Rover). Also gas costs are very significant with those vehicles, it greatly increases the cost per mile operational cost. The X7 has a smaller 3rd row as well, and not a lot of cargo room. I don't think I could carry a sheet of plywood from home depot in an X7. The GLS starts at 90k. There really isn't much out there. So I think that shows the value proposition of the R1S is there. As someone else said, market fit may be a different story.

Cost of depreciation is brutal with Rivian, so you safe on gas and maintenance, and you loose on resell value (to some extend as these cars also depreciate fast, but not as fast).

It all depends on your requirements. Most people IMHO will not need to use their car to carry plywood from HD. KIA EV9 is also a good choice for some, Lucid Gravity is coming. My point is that Rivian has a very niche market of enthusiasts, and I do not see how this will be sustainable going forward.

 

[MidnightRun]

Ironic to mention residual values and then go with an X Plaid. What does the Plaid offer that makes it worth the money over an R1S?

We bought a lightly used 24 Model X Plaid with 2k miles so we saved a little on the depreciation already.

I know folks here HATE to admit that such different vehicles are cross shopped and thus they aren’t comparable. The reality is that this is indeed most of the market.

For us, the X offered captains chairs which we really liked for our little ones. The nuances of how the 2nd row works for us relative to the heavy bench in the Rivian was a plus for us. With car seats, the 3rd row becomes useless for us in a Rivian unless we stick a kid in the back.

We liked the design aesthetic of Tesla even though I really like Rivian’s as well. We liked how far FSD has come and could see ourselves using it. The ease and efficiency in charging. Plenty of cargo space for our needs.

We also have two service centers in Dallas with a third opening in the next few months even closer to our house.

 

[AllInev]

The R2 release is going to be crucial.

The R2 release will be necessary, but not sufficient. RJ needs to find and hire a Supply Chain maven, otherwise we'll see the same production problems with the R2.

 

[PaythePiper]

This is very unfortunate, but as many here, I was saying the same - right now this car is not worth the price.

Quality (including software bugs) is not where it should be, service is very problematic (and I live near SC). And while I like the truck, if people ask me if they should buy Rvian my answer is no. Price/Value is not there. Depreciation killing all EVs, including Rivian.

All these factors together are not good for Rivian. I hope that VW or somebody else will buy them - the main difference from Fisker is that they have a production factory and other assets.

Every time I see pictures of RJ and Wassym smiling - I want to tell them - right now there is nothing to smile about, start working on issues. IMHO.

I said the exact same thing over and over and I get constantly flamed. Just got our R1S a couple weeks ago. I wanted another Tesla. Wife and I went at it about it. I caved. And I’m nervous every day that I’m going to lose my ass on this car. We like it a lot. But it’s not reliable long term IMo.

 

[RivianPVE]

I’ve had my truck three years…when does this drivers+ get better? I was informed Gen1 drivers+ isn’t supported going forward…on this forum.

maybe my 8th visit to the service center takes the shine off the price? You know…the SC where you have an appointment for Monday….and the truck sits in the parking lot until Thursday. Then you get to Uber or rental car around for 2 weeks. Makes me wonder if that’s worth six figures.

Speaking of awesome OTA updates…remember when they bricked all the vehicles with the botched update? I do.

or the last OTA that f’d my rear sensors. I’m numb to this stuff now…but I’ll never pay 100K for this again.

I feel you. It pains to trash a car that I own but it has come to this. I still believe that Rivian did a great job with the car for its first effort but the service is a complete disaster and quite the big joke among my friends now.

To recap my experience,

1. Steering wheel shaking from day one - Rivian acknowledges the problem but don’t know how to fix it.
2. HVAC - If I turn off the recirculating air button, loud banging noise. Mobile technician says it sounds like a bad actuator and needs tripping to SC. That’s funny because many months ago I got an appointment with OC SC (You can’t get an appointment at El Segundo for this year) and Rivian called me to change that to a mobile service (after I told them about the HVAV problem which video uploaded to the app but they reassured me a mobile service will be able to fix it). Now I have to wait months again to get into a SC. Lol.
3. When I go to a dc charger, my car either fails to start charging completely or quits the current charging station 80% of the time). The car blames the charging station each time but it’s funny because right after other EVs go to the same charger and charge just fine. Rivian says it’s the charging station and not my car. Haha. So I am unable to go further than 130 miles from my house because I don’t know if my car will be able to charge at a dc station.
4. My air suspension creaks and rattles like it’s a 25 year old car. It’s become a big joke among my friends and I laugh with them but I am not laughing inside. Rivian says it’s normal for the air suspension. Lol

I won’t bore you with other minor problems I’ve had but I just can’t fathom how they expect to service the R2s when they can’t even handle the R1s. My math tells me they are going down in flames and it pains me to say that.

I’d like to meet the genius who thought that 1 service center with 4 lifts (I’m not even joking) would be able to cover the Los Angeles area. lol. They say they are opening 2 more and they think that’ll be enough? Person in charge of service at Rivian needs to get their head out of their ass and understand what the hell is going on. At least in Los Angeles, Rivian is paying rental companies thousands of dollars for EACH customer that drops their car off at the SC (because it takes them weeks to even look at the car). When they took my car in right after delivery, they kept it for weeks and enterprise charged Rivian over 3k. And Rivian talks about becoming profitable?

Me rambling on about my experience is similar to me spitting on my own face - I get that. But if Rivian loses customers in California like myself, it’s over. Owners that have had experiences like myself need to stop proclaiming love for their cars and need to complain to SC, corporate and anyone else they can find so that Rivian understands what is going on with their service.

 

[PaythePiper]

I genuinely don't think soft demand is a quality or service issue. It's a market size/saturation issue. The R1S is the most popular SUV, period, in many target markets. I see at least 5 anytime I go out. (And people still stop me to ask me how I like it)

We also don't know if Rivian has evenly distributed this part shortage R1T vs EDV.

Also, I would not underestimate the importance of the Tri and Quad being largely unavailable this quarter. Many are simply waiting for a tri or quad.

And finally a note on incentives. These vehicles were recently repriced. The power of incentives in making sales are strong, even if you aren't getting more value. Price something 10% higher, so you can offer 10% off "for a limited time" is not a new strategy. I don't know if that is what Rivian is doing. But why wouldn't they?

Bad news for profitability, but doesn't exactly look like the sky is falling yet.

Most popular SUV? Lmao. Yeah right. Maybe in deep blue cities that drink the kool aid. I might see 2 a week and that’s pushing it here in the burbs of Phoenix. We like our rivian, but let’s not kid ourselves.

 

[djsider2]

Cost of depreciation is brutal with Rivian, so you safe on gas and maintenance, and you loose on resell value (to some extend as these cars also depreciate fast, but not as fast).

It all depends on your requirements. Most people IMHO will not need to use their car to carry plywood from HD. KIA EV9 is also a good choice for some, Lucid Gravity is coming. My point is that Rivian has a very niche market of enthusiasts, and I do not see how this will be sustainable going forward.

Cars like the GLS, Land Rovers, Q7s to some degree, X7, etc all have survived at the price point and market that Rivian is aiming for. If you only compared similar cars and usage, Rivian is doing very very well. There are more R1S in my area newer GLSes. I hardly ever see a X7.

The overall market between ICE, EV, and hybrids in this segment is probably too saturated for this economic environment. The other brands have cheaper and different models to sustain the company, plus years of legacy. This is just a timing issue (that might not have a solution) rather than Rivian's car sucks

 

[PaythePiper]

Exactly. I've long said, they must fix the service issue or dead. . .

Especially at these price points. It’s laughable to be honest

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Price point is difficult, but the Kia EV9 with similar quality trim is not much less than R1S (also no tax credit and dealership experience that at least rivals whatever bs Rivian has with SC's), and Lightning is similar in price to R1T and their UI and drive experience is not quite there, despite being 100 year old company with all the resources in the world.

You can get a fully loaded GT-Line EV9 for $60k. I think that’s quite a gap between that and an R1S.

 

[bfilippo]

You can get a fully loaded GT-Line EV9 for $60k. I think that’s quite a gap between that and an R1S.

Not to argue, and I know I’m in rural Maine, but the cheapest EV9 within 200 miles of me (3-4 dealerships) is a $67k Wind model. All the others are GT-Line and priced between $74-78k. 7 total available in Maine. You do save $1000 if you have a Tesla but I think that expired last month.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Not to argue, and I know I’m in rural Maine, but the cheapest EV9 within 200 miles of me (3-4 dealerships) is a $67k Wind model. All the others are GT-Line and priced between $74-78k. 7 total available in Maine. You do save $1000 if you have a Tesla but I think that expired last month.

Come on out to cali! I bet you can get one for about $60k. Though it’s quite the road trip home ?

I’ve seen similar $60k pricing in the tristate area, if that helps. Here is an example. https://www.kiaofcherryhill.com/sea...herry-hill-nj/?cy=08002&fl=15&md=21627&tp=new

$67k advertised. Which means you can get it to $60k. Mention Costco pricing. And do the haggling.

Love the no haggling with Rivian. But love the savings I get by haggling too lol

Sponsored