EVs Mooch Off, Do Not Pay Fair Share for Road Usage

[godfodder0901]

Road damage is not linear in the real world.

Heavy tractor trailers sitting in traffic on hot days cause divots that a normal passenger vehicle (including ours) just wouldn't cause. And chipping due to snow removal starts degradation in specific areas that only get worse over time.

No, even at 8k lbs, we aren't the problem.

Again, I acknowledge that commercial traffic is the largest source of degradation. And though we aren't the largest contributor, it's a false statement to say we don't cause any or that we don't cause more damage than non-commercial ICE traffic.

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[JohnB R1T]

I've never contended that EVs cause the most damage, only that we cause more than regular, non-commercial, ICE vehicles.

Even that is not accurate. Unlike some northeastern state where any pickup truck is considered to be "commercial (and plated as such)", there are PLENTY of 3/4 ton pickups around Texas that are not "commercial"...the GVWR of a Rivian R1T is 8,532 lbs and that of a 3/4 ton "ICE" pickup is 8501 to 10,000 lbs.

 

[godfodder0901]

Correct. We are 8K lbs, and a fully loaded tractor-trailer is 80k pounds.

While the weight may be 10x, it's spread across between 5 and 9 axles, making the per-axle load only about 2x.

 

[SRO]

Again, I acknowledge that commercial traffic is the largest source of degradation. And though we aren't the largest contributor, it's a false statement to say we don't cause any or that we don't cause more damage than non-commercial ICE traffic.

If you compare ESALs the damage we cause is very small.

 

[SRO]

Even that is not accurate. Unlike some northeastern state where any pickup truck is considered to be "commercial (and plated as such)", there are PLENTY of 3/4 ton pickups around Texas that are not "commercial"...the GVWR of a Rivian R1T is 8,532 lbs and that of a 3/4 ton "ICE" pickup is 8501 to 10,000 lbs.

The front axle alone of a semi is 20,000#. That is the light axle.

 

[godfodder0901]

Even that is not accurate. Unlike some northeastern state where any pickup truck is considered to be "commercial (and plated as such)", there are PLENTY of 3/4 ton pickups around Texas that are not "commercial"...the GVWR of a Rivian R1T is 8,532 lbs and that of a 3/4 ton "ICE" pickup is 8501 to 10,000 lbs.

But those ultra-heavy ICE vehicles are a much smaller portion of the ICE population. Bottom line is the average EV weighs more than the average ICE and, therefore, causes more damage.

 

[SRO]

But those ultra-heavy ICE vehicles are a much smaller portion of the ICE population. Bottom line is the average EV weighs more than the average ICE and, therefore, causes more damage.

Still negligible

 

[godfodder0901]

Still negligible

Completely disagree.

 

[SRO]

Still negligible

Have you ever driven I-80. CAL TRANS put down about 12” of concrete over the Sierras. The percentage of large trucks on the interstate is very high.

 

[SRO]

Completely disagree.

You must have a lot if pavement design experience. I defer to you.

 

[godfodder0901]

You must have a lot if pavement design experience. I defer to you.

None, actually. But I did stay at a Holliday Inn Express last night so...

 

[JohnB R1T]

The front axle alone of a semi is 20,000#. That is the light axle.

A semi bearing 20k # on the front axle doesn't exactly qualify as the "non-commercial ICE traffic" of which he spoke and to which I replied., and a 3/4 ton pickup (or even a 1 ton) is nowhere near an "ultra-heavy" vehicle. MY POINT being, that ICE pickups abound that are equal or greater in weight to a loaded Rivian. Bed size doesn't matter, only the density and weight of the load and we are not "causing more damage" than they are.

 

[SRO]

None, actually. But I did stay at a Holliday Inn Express last night so...

Touché. I like that.

 

[Seano]

Paying based on usage makes some sense with regard to the roads themselves. There could also be an argument made that reducing emissions/smog benefits others to some degree - we charge via solar so pretty low impact on the environment - certainly this is "worth" something?

I've never been a fan of the heavy vehicle argument. Many seem confused with curb weight (weight of the vehicle) vs GVW (vehicle + carrying capacity). We don't drive an 8k lb vehicle... Gen 1 R1s is 6,986 lbs and Gen2 is 6,671. The closest true comparison to Rivian would be large SUVs or the top 3 sellers in the US: pickups. Large SUVs are 5-6k lbs and pickups range from 5 - 7.5k lbs with GVWs of 6,500 - 14k lbs!

 

[godfodder0901]

The front axle alone of a semi is 20,000#. That is the light axle.

Small point of clarification. 20k lbs is the max for a steer-axle, per federal regulations. And generally that is the most weight allowed on any single axle. But most tractor-trailers are not loaded to 80k. I drove for more than a decade and never had a load over 45k.

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