F-150 Lightning EV canceled. To be replaced with EREV Lightning (700+ miles range)

[Newtonrj]

Scout's range extender doesn't seem like it's powerful enough for any real towing. Probably would be fine for anyone who lives in flatland, but as soon as you get into mountainous regions, it definitely doesn't have enough output.

Having tuned cars for years, I wonder about EVs that loose mfg software support. Will the tuner community step in a juice F-150 lightnings?, add features to pre gen4 hardware teslas, give more performance to gen1 Rivians?

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[Gen(R3)Xer]

Having tuned cars for years, I wonder about EVs that loose mfg software support. Will the tuner community step in a juice F-150 lightnings?, add features to pre gen4 hardware teslas, give more performance to gen1 Rivians?

I think once the warranty expires the sky should be the limit. Now we just have to get the automakers on board with right to repair.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I think this is the right decision. A 10,000 lbs /$100k EV still cannot satisfy people who tow. It's clear that most truck buyers will not accept EVs with the current battery tech.

TOWING IS THE MINORITY, WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM DECIDE???

 

[CrazyOne]

TOWING IS THE MINORITY, WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM DECIDE???

Because that's what majority of traditional truck buyers want, even if they rarely do it. Without that, your addressable market share is less then 50% of market and I am being generous. It's likely much more. Remove the people who want to tow long distances, who don't have access to charger, who don't want an expensive truck, who simply hate EVs etc and this is the result.

All caps ‍

 

[Thedude]

TOWING IS THE MINORITY, WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM DECIDE???

Because towing and hauling is what a truck is designed to do. A truck that can’t propel itself a reasonable distance when under load is pretty useless. I don’t tow daily but when I do I need the truck to go further than 100-150 miles before needing to refuel. That’s why an EREV truck makes so much sense unlike a commuter car or SUV. It’s cleanish and simple electric driving for most of the mileage but no range constraints when the time comes for it to be used.

 

[Captblue]

Here is a concept, stop buying a truck, if you aren’t going to use it as a truck. Want to sit high on your seat, buy a SUV. Want pure electric then buy a car. There are so, so many choices…. Ugh

For the rest of us if we can’t make a pure electric truck work for our needs, give us a better choice.
After switching from ICE to electric I don’t want to go back. I love my R1T. I would even consider the cybertruck if they actually built what they promised 5 years ago. 500+ miles ect….

 

[Ecupip]

Here is a concept, stop buying a truck, if you aren’t going to use it as a truck. Want to sit high on your seat, buy a SUV. Want pure electric then buy a car. There are so, so many choices…. Ugh

For the rest of us if we can’t make a pure electric truck work for our needs, give us a better choice.
After switching from ICE to electric I don’t want to go back. I love my R1T. I would even consider the cybertruck if they actually built what they promised 5 years ago. 500+ miles ect….

I'm confused why you're here and why you own an R1T then.

My R1T serves my needs perfectly. I use it for local hauling, commute 150 miles to the office, travel between three homes in the same state without needing to charge on the road, and occasionally tow to and from those places without charging on the way. Not all truck buyers fit the long-range towing narrative.

 

[smashweights]

So much "towing" complaints and seems like the target for Ford but the reality is that's just the excuse for most truck buyers who wouldn't buy an EV truck even if it had 1000mi range. These EREV focused companies are gonna realize that's not really what the issue is and by the time EREVs are out and becoming more mainstream battery tech will likely have made them obsolete.

I have plenty of friends with ICE trucks and they all say of my R1T "can't pull my XXX" and look surprised when I tell them it has an 11k tow rating and will pull their horse trailer 180mi roundtrip without stopping better than their twin turbo v6.

The issue is bias and ignorance of what the capabilities currently are and thinking the batteries in an EV will be crap in 3 years like their cell phones.

 

[Captblue]

I'm confused why you're here and why you own an R1T then.

My R1T serves my needs perfectly. I use it for local hauling, commute 150 miles to the office, travel between three homes in the same state without needing to charge on the road, and occasionally tow to and from those places without charging on the way. Not all truck buyers fit the long-range towing narrative.

You don’t get it, ignorance is a bliss.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

So much "towing" complaints and seems like the target for Ford but the reality is that's just the excuse for most truck buyers who wouldn't buy an EV truck even if it had 1000mi range. These EREV focused companies are gonna realize that's not really what the issue is and by the time EREVs are out and becoming more mainstream battery tech will likely have made them obsolete.

I have plenty of friends with ICE trucks and they all say of my R1T "can't pull my XXX" and look surprised when I tell them it has an 11k tow rating and will pull their horse trailer 180mi roundtrip without stopping better than their twin turbo v6.

The issue is bias and ignorance of what the capabilities currently are and thinking the batteries in an EV will be crap in 3 years like their cell phones.

I'd agree with this. My first Rivian was an R1T, and it did "truck things" as good or better than any truck I've ever owned. With how heavy it was, it towed my 7x16' enclosed trailer much better than an ICE half ton, on par with a diesel. Sure, range was an issue if you were towing long distances but most people aren't.

I only switched to the SUV because fitting my son and dogs in the back of the cab was too difficult for longer trips. Most people who think EV trucks aren't real trucks have never driven one and it is bias, not fact, that keeps them from buying one.

 

[mkhuffman]

I'd agree with this. My first Rivian was an R1T, and it did "truck things" as good or better than any truck I've ever owned. With how heavy it was, it towed my 7x16' enclosed trailer much better than an ICE half ton, on par with a diesel. Sure, range was an issue if you were towing long distances but most people aren't.

I only switched to the SUV because fitting my son and dogs in the back of the cab was too difficult for longer trips. Most people who think EV trucks aren't real trucks have never driven one and it is bias, not fact, that keeps them from buying one.

Typical R1T towing efficiency is 1.2-1.4 mi/kWh. Some here in the forum report less than 1 mi/kWh in some use cases, and some report higher than 1.4. But if you are on the highway, which if traveling you most likely will be, it is likely going to be in the 1.2-1.4 range.

Taking the low side of the average:
1.2*140 kWh = 168 miles of towing range 100% to 0% SoC. This is not a realistic scenario because most people will not drive to 0% SoC.
168*0.7 = 117.6 miles of range between chargers, assuming 10% to 80% charging.
117.6*0.8 = 94.08 miles of range in the winter.

Throw in some rain and snow, and it could be even worse.

From what I have been able to determine, the efficiency of the Lightning is similar, but the usable battery capacity is less than the R1T Max. I think the max battery capacity in the Lightning is 131 kWh in the Lariat/Platinum. So that makes the above calculates even worse for people who want to tow with the Lightning.

Some people do have wrong impressions regarding the capabilities of BEVs, but their impressions are not totally without merit, especially when it comes to towing long distances.

That said, my R1T has been able to do all the "truck things" I could ever want it to do, even with the short bed. And it can drive almost like a sports car. I love it.

But I don't sugarcoat the real issues that BEV ownership brings when I talk to people who have misconceptions. Towing range is definitely an issue. Cold weather and highway range are also issues. So is refueling speed. I correct their misconceptions and agree with the real issues.

One day those issues will be solved but today is not that day. I can deal with the issues because my truck does everything else so much better than any ICEV could. But that is just me. Not everyone is willing to put up with the real issues like I am.

 

[2kwik4u]

it is bias, not fact, that keeps them from buying one.

This bias has been steeped in the truck segment for decades before it was ICEV vs BEV.

Look at the Nissan Titan as an example. It was, for all intents and purposes, the value leader in the segment. You got more features, better capability, and good reliability for thousands less than a comparable Ford/GM/Ram; however it was, by most all accounts, a sales flop for Nissan. Nobody bought it because it wasn't what their dad drove, or it didn't win truck of the year from some magazine. If that segment bought on logic, the Titan would have been a sales leader instead of being relegated to "also available" status.

BEV's are the same way. Lots of people out here trying to justify NOT owning one with some tiny percentage of actual usage that doesn't work for them, instead of seeing all the ways that it DOES work for them, and understanding the relatively small accommodations required to cover the rest.

I just hate to see a competitor in the segment drop out, instead of push forward. I get the business side, and despise the policy side that allows the movement of the business that direction.

 

[antimatter]

Another interesting point that comes up when I discuss this with my non-ev friends is the episode of 'Hoovies Garage' where he had trouble towing with an F-150 lightning. They all bring up that episode as proof that EV trucks can't tow. The other point is that, of my group of friends, I'm to only one who owns an EV AND the only one that tows an RV.

I think the current economic situation is making lots of folks uncomfortable with change, and many people I've talked to don't want to deal with the added planning and knowledge involved in owning and travel using an EV. Until it's as easy as gas, lots of folks won't make the switch.

 

[Supratachophobia]

So much "towing" complaints and seems like the target for Ford but the reality is that's just the excuse for most truck buyers who wouldn't buy an EV truck even if it had 1000mi range. These EREV focused companies are gonna realize that's not really what the issue is and by the time EREVs are out and becoming more mainstream battery tech will likely have made them obsolete.

I have plenty of friends with ICE trucks and they all say of my R1T "can't pull my XXX" and look surprised when I tell them it has an 11k tow rating and will pull their horse trailer 180mi roundtrip without stopping better than their twin turbo v6.

The issue is bias and ignorance of what the capabilities currently are and thinking the batteries in an EV will be crap in 3 years like their cell phones.

This. So this.

I remember 10 years ago when the argument started evolving; it needs to look cool, it needs to go 250 miles, I need to charge on trips, I need 300 miles, I need 6+seats, I need 350 miles, I need this manufacturer, I need 400 miles, I need American. The excuses just keep going.

Just consider this, if it's not a corner case and it's not money, then you are afraid. It might be the unknown, it might be appearance to others, but don't ruin it for the rest of us because of that.

Mark my words, the companies that are still going full-bore on electric are going to have an insurmountable lead when the winds shift the other way.

 

[Rade]

Interesting how BMW can make both EV and ICE on the same assembly line, and make a profit on both. Meanwhile Ford sells most EVs at a loss.

Heck, Volvo is making all three! ICE, Hybrid and EV!

Shame their EV's have no substantial range, but they are not backing down!

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