In 4th year of waiting ... beginning to question if the wait is worth it

[mini2nut]

We are definitely living through some strange times.

I drove past a Subaru dealership the other day. They had 3 new cars on the lot and one car in the showroom. The new car parking lot was practically empty.

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[exprexxo]

I signed up on 12/21/2018, order #4700, so now I am starting on my 4th year of waiting for my R1S and I am beginning to question if the wait is worth it. I had one year on my Land Rover Discovery when I ordered the Rivian so I had that vehicle to enjoy during the wait. I have had a test drive in the R1T and that renewed my enthusiasm but now my patience is growing thin. Many other EV's are coming to market and will be readily available before it is my turn to have an R1S. Is anybody else getting tired of waiting?

Yea the wait is hard and weird. Batteries and Chips make it bad all around along with a pandemic. We have so many uncertainties. I have 3 Tesla Reservations, 1 Rivian res, 2 Apteras res and a Toyota Rav Prime res. All delayed, all frustrating. But the awards and reviews for Rivian look like the wait is still worth it. But if you bow out, I get mine one faster so ............. naw stay its worth it. We are investing in change and change is hard.

 

[stynes]

The statement was made that Rivian promised R1T LE's in Max Pack.

I have said no they did not.

Actually, not to be pedantic, but what you actually said was that Rivian never "indicated" that they would. And I disagree. And it's been presented by several of us, in writing, from Rivian.
Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch.
I went on to describe how since this statement was made well prior to any "Launch Edition," I think any reasonable person reading Rivian's statement would conclude that max and large packs (definitions that also weren't available at the time) are shipping first. But you've chosen to ignore the line of thinking and questioning.

I'll try presenting it a different way... in what scenario that this statement be interpreted to be true, "Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch?"

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Actually, not to be pedantic, but what you actually said was that Rivian never "indicated" that they would. And I disagree. And it's been presented by several of us, in writing, from Rivian.
Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch.
I went on to describe how since this statement was made well prior to any "Launch Edition," I think any reasonable person reading Rivian's statement would conclude that max and large packs (definitions that also weren't available at the time) are shipping first. But you've chosen to ignore the line of thinking and questioning.

I'll try presenting it a different way... in what scenario that this statement be interpreted to be true, "Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch?"

The problem is - I've said nothing about what you're talking about, so I have no idea why you're arguing with me about it. Yea, Rivian said both would be available at 'launch'. It's been nearly 18 months since they revised that and told you differently.

Get over it?

If anyone wants to show me where Rivian said "Launch Edition Max Packs" will be available at launch - I'd love to see the text.

As far as an indication that LE Max Packs would be available - what you quoted from Rivian does not make me come to that conclusion. Sucks that it did for you, I guess?

 

[stynes]

The problem is - I've said nothing about what you're talking about, so I have no idea why you're arguing with me about it. Yea, Rivian said both would be available at 'launch'. It's been nearly 18 months since they revised that and told you differently.

Get over it?

If anyone wants to show me where Rivian said "Launch Edition Max Packs" will be available at launch - I'd love to see the text.

As far as an indication that LE Max Packs would be available - what you quoted from Rivian does not make me come to that conclusion. Sucks that it did for you, I guess?

Clearly someone has suspended reality, then. I need more gifs to continue this... whatever this is. I'm done.

 

[MjWilk]

I placed my order a few weeks after you. My delivery window is First half of 2023 for the R1T Max pack.

I also have reservations for the Hummer SUT and SUV, Lightning and Silverado. First one to arrive gets my business the rest will be cancelled.

Four and half years is a long time to wait.

That's the only way to play the game. Until something else decent shows up you might as well wait.

 

[HJP1]

As I continue to wait for my launch edition R1T (ordered 12/19) I go back and forth as to a final decision, wait or cancel. The pros and cons are constantly being debated in my head, a new and expensive product from a new manufacturer VS a state of the art promise of the future of electric vehicles. I currently drive a Tesla 3 so I am aware of the pros and cons of driving an EV and the pros outweigh the cons by a wide margin. Tesla started out with basically no competition whereas Rivian is coming at time when the field is going to get crowded. That being said if Rivian fails it will probably get bought by Amazon or Ford, stock will go to zero but the truck should be OK???

 

[jjwolf120]

Selling 18650's stacked in a box

Tesla is still selling Model S & X with 18650s

 

[the long way downunder]

Tesla is still selling Model S & X with 18650s

yes, but they did a lot with the Plaid to get the desired performance (I think mostly to do with cooling) and still, it's obsolescent.

 

[the long way downunder]

Facepalms are not valid a valid rebuttal to an argument.

Again, not sure why it's so hard to grasp 'available at launch' is a phrase in English that does not mean 'Launch Edition'. It means exactly what it says - available at product launch. Says nothing about 'editions' which are entirely up to the manufacturer to choose how to allocate, which Rivian has done, by only building LE R1s that have the Large pack.

what you've written merits no more than a funny pic

 

[the long way downunder]

LFP batteries aren't new, and their pack density isn't particularly great. Hence Tesla is using them on shorter range cars at the moment in general.
Tesla isn't shipping 4680 in volume yet.
A pack is different than a cell.

Not sure what you're referring to as 2018 cooling tech.

r.e. cooling tech, that Tesla has gone to a heat pump. also, I seem to recall from the Munro teardown and others that have serviced packs (Gruber?) the cooling has improved and is superior to other cooling arrangements inside the pack … the flow of coolant taking shorter routes with more channels … I don't remember the details on how they improved things like avoiding thermal limits (that prevent any pre-Plaid Tesla from developing full power for more than a few minutes before heat soak, but that's more of an issue for track driving or maybe towing in hot weather?)
Also, the LFP is both cheaper, doesn't have the same rare/scarce materials, has better charging characteristics and doesn't exhibit the same degradation.
While I've read of the 4680 structural in production, I don't know if it's even reached a customer yet, but I'm talking in terms of 2018 technology in 2022 thru 2024 (which I imagine is the "version 1.0" life span of the R1.) My suspicion is the "mediocre to poor" charging performance we've seen so far is similar to what a Tesla could do in 2018 … back then 150 kW was damn impressive, even if it lasted only a few minutes. But the e-tron and Taycan and other fast-chargers are raising the bar. I'm optimistic Tesla will deliver a 500+ mile variant of the Plaid in '22 just because they're sort of "compelled" to not give Lucid the bragging rights.

 

[the long way downunder]

We are definitely living through some strange times.

I drove past a Subaru dealership the other day. They had 3 new cars on the lot and one car in the showroom. The new car parking lot was practically empty.

Yep. Bigger cities are being cleaned out. Other cities have "sufficient" stock.

Ford just reported a 20% increase in orders for January. They're going to "build to order" but I don't think Subarus are assembled in North America, so they're probably sitting in dockyards and floating on ships waiting and backed up ports. It's snafu.

A friend just paid msrp for a Jeep (normally pretty deeply discounted) in Chicago only he couldn't even get one locally. He called around dealers out of state and one of them had a selection in stock and shipped one direct to him. Madness "paying up" for a Jeep … imagine the resale value hit on that bucket of bolts in 2-3 years when there's abundant supply and people aren't going batshit crazy to pay over msrp for used cars.

 

[GaryL]

Yep. Bigger cities are being cleaned out. Other cities have "sufficient" stock.

Ford just reported a 20% increase in orders for January. They're going to "build to order" but I don't think Subarus are assembled in North America, so they're probably sitting in dockyards and floating on ships waiting and backed up ports. It's snafu.

A friend just paid msrp for a Jeep (normally pretty deeply discounted) in Chicago only he couldn't even get one locally. He called around dealers out of state and one of them had a selection in stock and shipped one direct to him. Madness "paying up" for a Jeep … imagine the resale value hit on that bucket of bolts in 2-3 years when there's abundant supply and people aren't going batshit crazy to pay over msrp for used cars.

Just a FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_of_Indiana_Automotive ?

 

[mini2nut]

I agree. It's a TERRIBLE time to purchase a new vehicle unless it's a Tesla or Rivian. There are no pricing games when your is custom ordered vehicle arrives.

 

[the long way downunder]

I agree. It's a TERRIBLE time to purchase a new vehicle unless it's a Tesla or Rivian. There are no pricing games when your vehicle arrives with through online ordering system.

Well, Tesla has been raising prices and there are long delays in getting an order built. It's not a little impressive that Rivian is not playing with prices. If anything, by the time Ford and GM build their BEV pickups (and they're both telling their dealers they will cut allocation to any dealer gouging over msrp) I expect Rivian will be quick to offer price-competitive models (once they finish building every pre-ordered unit, so I'm thinking 2023 will be a very different EV market. I expect something like Tesla going from 2016 (long wait lists) to 2018 (discounting and trying to move cars at the end of each quarter.)

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