Tesla to upgrade all HW3 cameras and computers to HW4 - RJ, your move.

[Motoarzon]

Robotaxi, if it actually works as a level 4, is chasing the Uber/Lyft market. Except it will make sense mostly for fleets. The narrative of individual buyers renting out their Robotaxi seems far fetched to me.

It does work! There are literally "unsupervised" cars been doing it for many months now. Albeit low volumes compared to the amount of robotaxis still with their safety "passenger" riding along (but that those cars still driving all by themselves for month and months and hundr ds of thousands of miles now) and with only a few very, very minor incidences...10x less than Waymos many more incidences, some major, and even a death.
Tesla moving very slowly because they know they're under the microscope, they don't have the luxury and free passes than Waymo gets!!
It's only getting better and only a matter of time and scaling! And scalability they have!
When they can offer rides for 50% less than Uber eventually Uber's billions will be eroded and that revenu will go to Tesla.

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[ElGuano]

Obviously if one didn't purchase FSD, one isn't owed anything. Figured this much was obvious.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Tesla relentlessly marketed all vehicles as being FSD-ready, whether or not the user purchased outright. There's very arguably a value proposition in being able to just "turn on" FSD later if the hardware is already there and included, for exactly the same price as offered to HW4 owners who didn't purchase FSD.

In principle, it seems very wrong to say "buy this car, and it fully supports FSD for whenever that is completed and available for purchase," and later saying, "Oh, turns out it'll be $75,000 more for FSD because the hardware actually isn't sufficient." That's a pretty clear bait and switch IMHO.

It's all about what Tesla claimed and promised.

 

[Motoarzon]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Tesla relentlessly marketed all vehicles as being FSD-ready, whether or not the user purchased outright. There's very arguably a value proposition in being able to just "turn on" FSD later if the hardware is already there and included, for exactly the same price as offered to HW4 owners who didn't purchase FSD.

In principle, it seems very wrong to say "buy this car, and it fully supports FSD for whenever that is completed and available for purchase," and later saying, "Oh, turns out it'll be $75,000 more for FSD because the hardware actually isn't sufficient." That's a pretty clear bait and switch IMHO.

It's all about what Tesla claimed and promised.

When you purchase a product you purchase it for what it can do today, not for what it might become. If it does become then that's icing on the cake.
Read the fine print. Tesla owes nothing to people that did not purchase the product! The legal fine print supersedes any verbal promises made afterward.
Besides, Musk said HW3 will be upgraded for free and there's a huge business case to do so.
Even so, what Tesla's supervised FSD can do today...on HW3 and HW4 Driving for hours and hours and hours on end in "city" and highway without ever touching the steering wheel or pedals is a 1,000 times better than the garbage highway assist system that Rivian has.
It would also make RJ. a scumbag liar for promising what he can't deliver and leaving gen 1 owners hung out to dry and most likely Gen2 owners as well.

 

[NY_Rob]

1) When you purchase a product you purchase it for what it can do today, not for what it might become.

2) Read the fine print. ...The legal fine print supersedes any verbal promises made afterward.

3) It would also make RJ. a scumbag liar for promising what he can't deliver and leaving gen 1 owners hung out to dry and most likely Gen2 owners as well.

With 1 and 2 considered, 3 doesn't follow unless of course that's just your own personal opinion of RJ?

 

[captainjp]

Another source of revenue for Tesla. There’s no way that this is a free upgrade.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Another source of revenue for Tesla. There’s no way that this is a free upgrade.

I could totally see this being a thing they would do with used HW3 vehicles and building their own fleet around it. But the fact that they don't seem to be positioning themselves that way already means it's probably not commercially viable.

 

[CharonPDX]

Video from 2019, explained as featured in 2020 tech.

Yes, from *LONG* before vehicles were actually sold. By the time the vehicles were sold, that claim had been removed. And even in that interview, it wasn't a promise "the first vehicles will support this", but a "future goal" - much like Tesla did with Autopilot 1.0. They said they were working *toward* "full self driving", but made zero claims that Autopilot 1.0 could do it.

 

[Riviot]

By the time the vehicles were sold, that claim had been removed.

Unless someone took a screenshot from back in the day (@godfodder0901), not sure we have proof, but the website did say the current vehicles being sold would have the Gen2 abilities until summer 2022 or 2023. Why else would they have cameras inside? Then stopped installing interior cams when they realized it was a waste of money, until Gen2.

 

[CharonPDX]

Unless someone took a screenshot from back in the day (@godfodder0901), not sure we have proof, but the website did say the current vehicles being sold would have the Gen2 abilities until summer 2022 or 2023. Why else would they have cameras inside? Then stopped installing interior cams when they realized it was a waste of money, until Gen2.

I looked a bit ago, the only Gen 2 ability it said was hands-free, eyes-UP thanks to the camera. It never had anything more.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220619064700/https://rivian.com/r1t#driver

 

[Riviot]

I looked a bit ago, the only Gen 2 ability it said was hands-free, eyes-UP thanks to the camera. It never had anything more.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220619064700/https://rivian.com/r1t#driver

Sounds like hands off eyes on P2P to me!

 

[ThumprMN]

Mmm.. someone’s wish-casting. Hope you aren't holding your breath too long on this one….

 

[ElGuano]

When you purchase a product you purchase it for what it can do today, not for what it might become. If it does become then that's icing on the cake.

Here, there is more than just a purely speculative "what might it do in the future?"

Musk and Tesla were out there touting full self driving capability in all of their cars moving forward. If you bought it today, this is what the hardware will be able to do. these were specific claims made by Tesla about their products, used to entice purchasers.

Read the fine print. Tesla owes nothing to people that did not purchase the product! The legal fine print supersedes any verbal promises made afterward.

Yep, always prudent advice; what the large print giveth, the fine print taketh away. However, false advertising is still a thing, and a plain, prominent statement that when viewed as a whole, may be deemed to mislead a reasonable consumer, cannot be "cured" by fine print attempting to obviate it--the fine print in those cases can only clarify non-contradictory details.

 

[2TurnersNotEnough]

If Tesla does this it would be a paid upgrade for most owners and possibly a free upgrade for people who bought FSD on hardware 3. Elon also mentioned providing an incentive to upgrade to a HW 4 vehicle as a possibility as well.

I don't really see an analog for Rivian here. Gen 1 owners never had the option to buy any sort of autonomous package that Rivian then failed to deliver on their Gen 1 hardware.

I know Rivian said Gen 1 would have that capability eventually but that's not the same as actually SELLING owners that functionality and then abandoning them when Gen 2 arrived. It was always expected that, if available, those features would eventually incur a cost. They never became available. It'd be nice if Rivian could offer a paid hardware upgrade to Gen 1 owners but it's not gonna happen.

This is exactly it. I bought my Model 3 in 2018, and paid for the Enhanced Self Driving (ESD). Later, when Elon decided to make it a $2K upgrade to get the HW3 controller and FSD, I went for it (mostly with the idea to help the resale value). Do I believe Elon will actually follow through on this for people in my situation? No. I’m more inclined to believe there will be some offer to “buy me out” of expecting FSD to get the liability of not being able to book some or all of the $2K in revenue from the FSD .“upgrade”.

 

[Jeremy3292]

If Tesla does this it would be a paid upgrade for most owners and possibly a free upgrade for people who bought FSD on hardware 3. Elon also mentioned providing an incentive to upgrade to a HW 4 vehicle as a possibility as well.

I don't really see an analog for Rivian here. Gen 1 owners never had the option to buy any sort of autonomous package that Rivian then failed to deliver on their Gen 1 hardware.

I know Rivian said Gen 1 would have that capability eventually but that's not the same as actually SELLING owners that functionality and then abandoning them when Gen 2 arrived. It was always expected that, if available, those features would eventually incur a cost. They never became available. It'd be nice if Rivian could offer a paid hardware upgrade to Gen 1 owners but it's not gonna happen.

Exactly. Not sure why people think this analogous to Rivian at all.

Tesla is ONLY doing this for original owners of a HW3 vehicle who purchased FSD outright (no monthly subscriptions). All the media articles are acting that it's relevant for every HW3 vehicle that exists today. It is orders of magnitude smaller of people they'll "owe".

 

[Count Orlok]

So tesla owners want to be riders not drivers? The Count likes to drive the Royal R1S. Riding is only for the back of a Bentley or an East St. Louis squad car.

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