Friend bought ModelY after keeping R1S for a day, and after learning about R2

[SwampNut]

I only napped in the back seat of the Tesla on the highway

As a motorcyclist, I bet @SwampNut is often the first to stop for a yellow/red light. We are all safest when we are all ready to do the same.

Sorry but as a motorcyclist my first instinct at a yellow light is drop a gear and go. The chances of being rear ended by a cager looking down at his phone is infinitely higher than any danger from running a yellow. Even in a car, I’ve experienced more than one idiot skidding to a stop behind me at a light.

This goes to 3x when I drive in FL. My relatives yell at me about how unsafe it is to stop at a “barely red” light there.

None of this is related to ADAS at all.

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[phaduman]

As another motorcycle rider, I agree with @SwampNut 's assessment of how to react in yellow - running a yellow is much safer than trying to stop. Similarly, not being the first or fast to drive/ride out as soon as light turns green is also important for me - many distracted drivers are still completing their "running the red"....oh well!

A bit of a distraction from this thread, but good news - Rivian seems to have pulled a surprise on Tesla with release of the AI Asistant to all R1s (Gen1 & Gen2) with Connect+ subscription - the assistant is fully integrated with the vehicle and helps you control with voice. I am waiting to test it. But on the Teslas with Grok (2022+ I think needed with right MCU to be able to run the s/w in car), there is no car control possible - it is a generic AI assistant (like one running on a phone) - with no knowledge of the car it is running on. More on that here.

This gives me hope on ADAS enhancements that Rivian will bring to my Gen2.

 

[SwampNut]

It's funny-sad that my explanation of how ADAS works in the real world across tens of thousands of miles and many years has been turned into a bizarre set of assumptions from people who apparently have zero experience with it. Which sadly mirrors a discussion right now on a medical forum where people with no experience in a particular thing are telling me that my three years solving this medical challenge, with mostly success, is the wrong way to do it.

It's this simple: I drive around throughout the day doing errands or customer visits. I don't commute, but do lots of middle of the day street traffic. Proper ADAS like Tesla AP does nearly all the work. Yes, including lights, because you usually are not the first at a light. It's that damn simple. Yes, you still have to be LOOKING but not doing the work.

Sheesh.

 

[phaduman]

We all know it is easy to misread, and misrepresent in the most insensitive of media - the forums. You know what you are doing, and some may agree and some may not. It works for you, and I think that is enough. For me, that mode doesn't work and I am ok with that. It's all good.

But I think everyone will agree that we are all waiting for Rivian to start recognizing traffic lights, road signs, turns including u-turns, railway signs, ambulance lights & emergency lane-parking, adjacent lane higher speeds to make intelligent lane changes autonomously etc etc...seems like Comma is doing a lot of that and that's amazing that some are able to install and make it work. For the rest of us that are used to the FSD on Tesla - we can't wait for Rivian to do that. This (& R2 success) will also most likely boost Rivian stock the most and get us investors out of red . I can also argue for R2 volume to reach Tesla level (100Ks / quarter) which no other EV model has achieved EVER in US (Other than Leaf I think), we need that advanced ADAS/FSD whatever we call it.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

Sorry but as a motorcyclist my first instinct at a yellow light is drop a gear and go. The chances of being rear ended by a cager looking down at his phone is infinitely higher than any danger from running a yellow. Even in a car, I’ve experienced more than one idiot skidding to a stop behind me at a light.

This goes to 3x when I drive in FL. My relatives yell at me about how unsafe it is to stop at a “barely red” light there.

None of this is related to ADAS at all.

Apparently most Arizonans and Floridians handle yellow lights differently from most of us in the Northwest (especially the rural Northwest).

It's best to be ready for anything, but I'm understanding @SwampNut's assumptions better now.

Does "cager" mean "somebody in an enclosed vehicle"?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[SwampNut]

Arizonans and Floridians don't have anything in common when it comes to yellow/red lights. No idea what you're assuming here, but two different things. Yellow anywhere on a motorcycle, even the NW, means blaze it if you can. In FL, it means, even in a car, you get 2-3 cars through the red.

But yeah, cager is an "affectionate" term for people in cars, LOL. Often it's "BDC." Brain dead cager.

 

[windblowlc]

I only napped in the back seat of the Tesla on the highway


Sorry but as a motorcyclist my first instinct at a yellow light is drop a gear and go. The chances of being rear ended by a cager looking down at his phone is infinitely higher than any danger from running a yellow. Even in a car, I’ve experienced more than one idiot skidding to a stop behind me at a light.

This goes to 3x when I drive in FL. My relatives yell at me about how unsafe it is to stop at a “barely red” light there.

None of this is related to ADAS at all.

This is the reason why I have to be extra careful going through a green light.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

This is the reason why I have to be extra careful going through a green light.

These last few posts remind me of the old George Carlin bit

 

[SoCalRIVN]

Tesla’s superior FSD is a definite advantage and sacrifice in getting a Rivian. I’m hopeful Rivian delivers in the next year a comparable autonomy experience.

 

[Pecos Bill]

[QUOTE="phaduman, post: 999239, , the Tesla mobile app (works so well), zero
[/QUOTE]
my second Tesla, a model Y, is my last. Sad, too because it fits me. Excellent UI on the app and the car is decent. The Y feels so cheap though. The UI on the app is excellent. A lot more to like though FSD is terrible for my needs. Refuses to maintain a set speed on a highway and happily slows down instead of passing.

Hubby has an R1T and loves it. Due to the nightmare with body repairs, I don’t want to drive it in case someone hits me while I’m behind the wheel. I’m a bit unlucky in that way.

Both are ‘23s. The wheelbase is longer in the truck so that and the expensive-to-replace air suspensions are factors but overall the ride is excellent and significantly better than the Y. That makes me think an R2 is in my future

I’m not a fan of the app UI but it works well on the truck. Too much white space for a small phone’s screen. Now that Colorado has a law against touching your phone behind the wheels , I emailed Rivian saying that I will buy an R2 when they include CarPlay and fix the drivers seat so it doesn’t dig into my upper back. I have a tall torso. The Tesla seats are comfier because of the side bolsters but I’m fine without that part especially with ventilated seats. So much else to love about the R2. Apparently, buying one doesn’t support a Nazi.

 

[ENVErider]

We have both Teslas (M3, MY, had MS before - and love them) and a R1T Gen2 (love it). Our family friends have only Teslas (M3 and MX). Their kids are blown away with R1's looks, presence. They bought a R1S for one day but returned it next day and immediately purchased and picked up a MY. Their reasons:
- R1 is beautiful, powerful but very big. We all knew that would be the case.
- R2 is likely the best car for them, but they couldn't wait that long.
- But really what killed the Rivian option for them - they didn't realize how much they used the AutoPilot/FSD in their current Teslas that they missed in other cars and in R1S. They also test drove Lucid Gravity (really liked the interior, exterior not so much - like a minivan, but again no autopilot), Benz EQS (felt even it's own company is abandoning it), as well as a Taycan (cramped seats & old tech!).

They realized they are VERY DEPENDENT on the Tesla cars' EASY nature - teens and parents can easily switch between cars for driving, the Tesla mobile app (works so well), zero learning curve moving between M3, MX and now MY...it is very much an Apple experience. Those who are on Apple ecosystems (phones, iCloud storage, MACs, AppleTV etc.) will realize just how difficult it is to move to non-Apples, and this is the SAME EFFECT with Teslas. And the autopilot/FSD (if you are using it today you know...) is a real differentiator. Rivian needs to move real fast on autonomy to have a global true successful competition to Tesla - for themselves as well as for VW.

I agree wholeheartedly that Tesla software is ahead of Rivian, BUT I also feel their RATE of development is amazing and it is faster than Tesla's development rate.
It sounds like a Tesla was a better fit for that family, nothing wrong with that. I spent several weeks in M3 & MY before I test drove my R1T and I spent very little time reconsidering purchasing a Tesla. After all this time, I'm so happy that I chose Rivian and if I totaled it tomorrow, I'd just go out and buy another one without looking at anything else.
I don't think there's anything to criticize any car company about losing some sales to the #1 best-selling vehicle in the world. Unlike the family mentioned, I find FSD a nice party trick, but I weigh the Rivian experience and adventure capabilities at the top of my list; plus I think the R1 is more premium inside than either the MX or MS.

 

[phaduman]

Very true that Rivian's focus on "adventurous forever" fits some of us so well we are happy to let go of somethings we might be very used to (like the FSD).

For Rivian to get to 100/200/300K R2s / quarter, which is what Model Y is doing, and the best other EV(Nissan Leaf during it's golden days) was doing no more than 30K / quarter, R2 has to appeal to the masses - not all into adventure or offroad, but a little bit of everything. No other manufacturer - not BMW, MB, Ford, GM... have reached those volumes - it is the tallest and toughest wall for Rivian to climb. I think they can do it - and advanced driver assistance and overall software experience will be a key part of that.

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