Advice: PDM vs Quad Both Gen 1

[R1Tom]

really? with the DM having an oil cooled stator, i would think thats the superior design that will control temps to provide more consistent power and overall efficiency

Could be that DM doesn't need to pull back power due to internal heat...that is true. But who actually pushes these to point internal motor heat is causing a reduction in power? Probably in extreme offroad use...yes...or a hill climb event.

But efficiency I don't see how the oil bath helps with that.

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[Mathme]

I have a quad and if I were to buy again, I’d likely trade those purchase dollars on 4 motors for a max pack…more range at the end of the day would be better.

I’d also pony up for the PDM as any time the road gets twisty on a mountain pass, I do like sport mode.

in a year of ownership, I’ve used AP over 90% of the time, then sport, Conserve, snow, then off road. I haven’t done any hard core off roading so haven’t needed sand or drift.

 

[DD4ST]

I got the DM (delivered for free as PDM like someone else mentioned), vowing from the git-go not get a QM. But my reasons were unique to my situation and relates to the fact the QM’s are water cooled and the DM’s are oil cooled. Besides the R1T, I have an Audi eTron with two water cooled motors. At about 10K of ownership my front motor developed a water leak into the motor and I was stranded. Water and electricity don’t mix well. Plus the repair (motor replacement) took weeks. I don’t know if Audi uses Bosch motors but being German, the designs are likely more similar than not. I did not want to take that chance on my R1T. In addition, what sealed it for me was 1) the DM’s are more efficient with the QMs being more limited technologically because of steeper internal temperatures (because no water cooling in the center), and 2) at the time I leased the QM was quite a bit more expensive than the DM. Also, now that Rivian has announced Gen 2 not using Bosch motors, I am glad to have a motor that is still in the Rivian inventory.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I would argue QM is superior design.

Then why phase it out?.....

 

[R1Tom]

Then why phase it out?.....

Cost. Bosch was charging Rivian significantly more to supply their motors and associated technologies than Rivian felt they could do themselves. Not because Bosch doesn't know what they are doing in the realm of BEV motors. Same situation as Meridian. They didn't phase out Meridian becuase it was inferior to Rivian Elevation. They phased it out becuase they felt they could do it cheaper.

I think that has all been pretty well covered in various press releases, etc...

 

[Carscott]

Cost. Bosch was charging Rivian significantly more to supply their motors and associated technologies than Rivian felt they could do themselves. Not because Bosch doesn't know what they are doing in the realm of BEV motors. Same situation as Meridian. They didn't phase out Meridian becuase it was inferior to Rivian Elevation. They phased it out becuase they felt they could do it cheaper.

I think that has all been pretty well covered in various press releases, etc...

I really like my Bosch dishwasher!

 

[smunro622]

Again, you're making performance, acceleration, and other arguments that would matter on a track car. If you want the fastest possible R1, great! Might as well wait for gen 2 quad.

I don't see the clutch disconnect as a concern. I see it as a benefit. I get 4WD every single time I accelerate from a stop, and 2WD every time I'm cruising on the highway. Warranty arguments are nonsensical; Rivian offers a ridiculously long warranty for both because they're a brand new company and need to build credibility and confidence. Furthermore, the quad warranty is cheaper for Rivian to administer because those motors come from a supplier. I bet Bosch pays out a portion for every failed unit.

Also, quad motor units aren't air cooled; they have a coolant jacket. The biggest difference between these thermal packages has nothing to do with how cool they keep the motor, but how quickly the vehicle can precondition and reach optimum pack temperature. In the winter, a DM vehicle will always outperform the Bosch QM in that very real, and significant way.

Don't get me wrong, I love the OG quad motor vehicles. They're incredibly fast and were an awesome first product for Rivian to launch the brand with. They made an excellent compromise outsourcing the original motors to Bosch. That said, I'm approaching 10,000 miles on my vehicle and exactly 0 of them have been on a track. I've spent 0 seconds wishing I had better torque vectoring in my 110mph max vehicle with a curb weight of 7,000lbs. For an AWD, street and off-road capable vehicle, DM is all I could ever want.

As as QM owner on a R1S, I am not driving 110 mph everyday to pickup kids and and various other items. I do get 2.4 setting cruise at 72 mph and very happy with range on the QM… can I drive like a fool and drastically reduce range yes…will I do another QM no it will be a tri or PDM. Overall very happy with Rivian I have the same complaints as everyone else.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Cost. Bosch was charging Rivian significantly more to supply their motors and associated technologies than Rivian felt they could do themselves. Not because Bosch doesn't know what they are doing in the realm of BEV motors. Same situation as Meridian. They didn't phase out Meridian becuase it was inferior to Rivian Elevation. They phased it out becuase they felt they could do it cheaper.

I think that has all been pretty well covered in various press releases, etc...

I think if it was truly the plan, they would have made a better attempt at a drop in setup. But as it stands, they have an entire bespoke drivetrain they need to support will visually no backwards compatibility.

Certainly cost was a motivation, and first to market based on what was available. I think we'll know more in the years ahead when someone does an inside documentary. Kinda like Tesla with the roadster story.

 

[Carscott]

So it appears that these two versions with large battery both do 308 miles Must be with conserve mode on. Anyone know what the quad range test results are in all purpose and all wheel drive?

 

[brancky3]

So it appears that these two versions with large battery both do 308 miles Must be with conserve mode on. Anyone know what the quad range test results are in all purpose and all wheel drive?

I reliably get 310 in all purpose in my quad. Conserve brings it up to around 340.

 

[Carscott]

I reliably get 310 in all purpose in my quad. Conserve brings it up to around 340.

Which wheels tires.

 

[Carscott]

So I’m now over thinking things. But if rivian is out of business and their warranty is void. Maybe having Bosch motors you can buy is better?

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