Official: RIVIAN MEMBERSHIP Announced [1 year free trial beginning at day of delivery]

[Zoidz]

If you have to ask...

I'll finish that for you:

if you have to ask, it's because you are a smart consumer. If you don't ask, you're a fool.

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[mkg3]

Their IPO documents listed the membership as a an anticipated $5,500 "lifetime" revenue stream with lifetime estimated as 10 years of ownership. So $5,500/10/12 = $45 per month. (If the free first year is included in their estimate then it's $50/month).

That's really high for most people who DO NOT live close to AN Chargers every month.

If you take out the charging benefit, which you may use time to time on outings, then its quite high.

I bet they will introduce tiered plan so that you can use just network and mapping connection, then with paid but discounted charging and full AN benefit as stated.

Otherwise, they will miss the projection for sure.

 

[MIG]

That's really high for most people who DO NOT live close to AN Chargers every month.

If you take out the charging benefit, which you may use time to time on outings, then its quite high.

I bet they will introduce tiered plan so that you can use just network and mapping connection, then with paid but discounted charging and full AN benefit as stated.

Otherwise, they will miss the projection for sure.

Details still haven't been crystal clear but it also includes Waypoint charging in addition to Adventure Network. Whether it also includes "partner" charger is an unknown, but it also includes recovery, which will provide assistance if you run out of juice. Also not clear whether that's a portable charge or towing to a charger. Bottom line, still too early to tell whether it's useful or not or worth paying for.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Details still haven't been crystal clear but it also includes Waypoint charging in addition to Adventure Network. Whether it also includes "partner" charger is an unknown, but it also includes recovery, which will provide assistance if you run out of juice. Also not clear whether that's a portable charge or towing to a charger. Bottom line, still too early to tell whether it's useful or not or worth paying for.

I was under the impression that "waypoint chargers" were free to use -- even for non-Rivian vehicles.

I'd also assume that the roadside service would tow you to a charger, since Rivian is likely to outsource it.

 

[Dbeglor]

That's really high for most people who DO NOT live close to AN Chargers every month.

If you take out the charging benefit, which you may use time to time on outings, then its quite high.

I bet they will introduce tiered plan so that you can use just network and mapping connection, then with paid but discounted charging and full AN benefit as stated.

Otherwise, they will miss the projection for sure.

They actually didn't make any projections related to this revenue (or any other primary or ancillary revenues), other than the total gross potential per customer over ten years. Investors/analysts were left to their own assumptions on take rates based on what they know from following other companies with similar offerings. I personally think they will see at least 50% elect for it in the R1 series.

I think there is also an unknown element based on their language, that the more people that sign up, the better the membership will be given the resources that will be available. So, once they finally reveal details, it will be something like "includes this, and possible more depending on membership numbers". About a third of it is just a passthrough of data costs from AT&T, and another good chunk is going to be offset with charging costs, so they will need a good subscriber base to generate any meaningful revenue that will be useable for other benefits. Lower take rates can also accumulate even if over a longer period of time.

I know one of their ambitions is for it to include access to private lands for adventures, which would also include the ability to rent vehicles & accessories for use. I also think they envision guided experiences, similar to what REI, Nat Geo, Orvis, etc. do. These would still cost money, but have a Membership base requirement to be eligible.

 

[Dbeglor]

I was under the impression that "waypoint chargers" were free to use -- even for non-Rivian vehicles.

Most definitely not, why would they do that? They will be just like Chargepoint chargers and the like, pay per use (but free/included in Membership).

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Most definitely not, why would they do that?

The Tesla Destination charges I see at restaurants and hotels have all been free to use.

 

[mkg3]

When Tesla started selling Model s, they promised life-time free charging at the superchargers. I know few people still own those older Model s.

Today, that's not the case and clearly with roughly 2M vehicles on the road, that would be a significant hit to their balance sheet. So they charge for both charging and idle time, if you don't get your car off the supercharger after charging is completed.

As for recovery assistance, not clear what Rivian can do. I recently had a problem with charge level on my Model 3 trip (neglected to plan ahead, figuring that superchargers were everywhere....NOT). So I was down to 0% charge on the indicator but the vehicle was still powered and moving. Contacted Tesla support and they do not help with these issues so kudos to Rivian for taking this on!

What I'd learned is that AAA flatbed service to the nearest supercharger was about $100 but as we were waiting for them to come, I check the web and Tesla actually has about 20~25 mile reserve that its not disclosed. I suppose it could be a part of system function reserve that allows you to tap in in a case like mine. I reached the supercharger (was about 15 miles away) with -5% charge. Took 40 min or so to get back to 80% charge.

The point is if the only major benefit of recovery service, it may not make sense to take on $50/mo recurring cost just for that. I did read AN chargers are free - nothing about waypoint chargers being free. So if you are close to one of the AN charger and use it regularly, then probably yes. You can avoid installing in house charger and costs of recharging at home.

Also Tesla destination charger cost at establishment dependent. Also if its outside their business hours, then its shut off (we looked for one of those and found two nearby but one was a restaurant that was closed at the time and the other was Holiday Inn express but you had to be a guest to use the charger).

 

[AllInev]

Their IPO documents listed the membership as a an anticipated $5,500 "lifetime" revenue stream with lifetime estimated as 10 years of ownership. So $5,500/10/12 = $45 per month. (If the free first year is included in their estimate then it's $50/month).

Seem correct. I've been planning/budgeting on $50/month for membership.

 

[MIG]

I was under the impression that "waypoint chargers" were free to use -- even for non-Rivian vehicles.

I'd also assume that the roadside service would tow you to a charger, since Rivian is likely to outsource it.

I'm totally guessing on this one but I would imagine they'll do something like the Sparkcharge Roadie system. I heard that AAA was going to use them so Rivian would likely tap into that resource:

https://www.sparkcharge.io/roadie

This article only mentions the NY area but I heard they're going to keep expanding:

https://rbj.net/2021/04/28/aaa-to-provide-roadside-ev-charging/

 

[kylealden]

Most definitely not, why would they do that? They will be just like Chargepoint chargers and the like, pay per use (but free/included in Membership).

Level 2 chargers are extremely low cost to operate and typically provide more value in attracting customers than they cost (we're talking $0.50/hr while occupied). It's very common for them to be free at destinations like hotels, workplaces, resorts, and other attractions. I believe all Tesla L2 chargers are free (after any relevant parking fees) - they don't even have a way to accept payment.

DCFCs are completely different since they have much higher fixed infrastructure costs (trenching, big cabinets, cooling, acquiring property, etc.) and customers are willing to pay a significant premium over the raw electrical costs for fast charging. So a DCFC can pretty easily generate $20+/hr in revenue with decent margins while occupied.

 

[Eeyore]

Their IPO documents listed the membership as a an anticipated $5,500 "lifetime" revenue stream with lifetime estimated as 10 years of ownership. So $5,500/10/12 = $45 per month. (If the free first year is included in their estimate then it's $50/month).

Thanks for the answer.

I think that's a little steep. Despite what the IPO docs say, I wouldn't be surprised it there end up being lower price tiers with lower benefits.

 

[SeaGeo]

That's really high for most people who DO NOT live close to AN Chargers every month.

I'd argue it's not high at all. Assuming that's your data connection + some premium features + charging you up if you run out of gas that's probably worth at least $10/month?

So let's assign $35 of it to charging.

Charging 80% of the battery *once* on EA, with EA's membership discount would be $36.

To put it another way, that's $420/year on RAN charging basically. At ~1.85mi/kwh, and $0.31c/kwh on EA with $48/year for EA's membership that's 2220 miles of charging/year on EA. Or 1800 miles if you don't get the EA membership. And I suspect RAN will be less congested and more reliable than EA.

It's not a forced cost, so people can do what they want, but that doesn't seem absurd to me. For me that's Seattle to Boise once per year, one trip to Portland, and about 3 random fast charging stops in the Washington for longer day trips a year.

Or literally just one trip to see the in-laws.

 

[electruck]

Or literally just one trip to see the in-laws.

Hmmm, membership vs in-laws. When you put it that way, it's really no sacrifice at all.

 

[DuckTruck]

Hmmm, membership vs in-laws. When you put it that way, it's really no sacrifice at all.

I can almost hear the pleading now...."But honey, if I stay home, by taking me, my luggage, and my golf clubs out of the equation, you'll save a good $10 to $12, just in charging expenses! With those savings, you can stay and visit your folks for an extra two weeks! We can always Skype every other week!" "Honey? Come on....put my 9-iron back in the bag! It's right-handed and you're not!....Honey?!"

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