BMW ChargeForward - Rivian Please Copy this Program

[140 degrees]

As much as I love my R1T, I am not happy with the vampire losses. I would feel better about this issue if Rivian had a partnership with PG&E, similar to BMW's ChargeForward program. In brief, I allow some remote management of my I3's charging. This saves PG&E money by allowing them to manage EV charging load. They give EV owners incentives to participate. When I plug in my I3 at home, I note when it is scheduled to charge. If I don't like it, I can override and pick my own time slot.

A few days ago, I received this email from BMW. This time of year, there is an excess of solar power at certain times of day. If I charge in their time slot I end up being paid about 14 cents/KWh to charge on weekends, and 7 cents/KWh on weekdays. (My rate at that time is below their incentive bonus rate.)

From BMW:
Spring is here, and with it, more solar energy from the sun. Help the grid even more by participating in Sunshine Savings. Until May 31st, earn an additional $0.38 in gift card dollars for every kWh you charge between 10 AM and 2 PM (capped at $10/day and $50/month).

During these hours the grid can be powered by 100% solar energy, plus other renewable energy. This time also generates the lowest CO2 emissions and helps integrate renewable energy.

The link below shows the mix of power generation for PG&E. You can see that by giving the grid management software some control, EV charging can be done by renewables at lower cost. A better managed and smarter electrical grid is in all of our interests.

http://www.caiso.com/todaysoutlook/pages/supply.aspx

What's not to like? I know that Rivian has their hands full right now, but this is high on my list for a future customer benefit.

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[CheezyNachos]

I would prefer not to give that kind of control to a utility company.

As far as a "better managed and smarter electrical grid" is concerned, I only agree if isn't being done in lieu of a stronger and more robust one.

Not that it matters, where I live I'm able to currently avoid this nonsense.

 

[SASSquatch]

Hello fellow i3 owner! Great post @140 degrees and I agree it would be very smart if Rivian would follow in BMWs footsteps here. Not everyone will want to have their electric company managing their charging, but as long as it is an option, I am sure there will be plenty of people willing to try it.

I am deeply curious how you like the handling of the R1T vs your i3. I have been spoiled by the visibility, nimbleness and handling of my i3s and I'm wondering whether your R1T could replace your i3 for daily driving. I'm on the fence about whether I should keep my i3s or trade it in when my R1T is finally available.

 

[140 degrees]

Hello fellow i3 owner! Great post @140 degrees and I agree it would be very smart if Rivian would follow in BMWs footsteps here. Not everyone will want to have their electric company managing their charging, but as long as it is an option, I am sure there will be plenty of people willing to try it.

I am deeply curious how you like the handling of the R1T vs your i3. I have been spoiled by the visibility, nimbleness and handling of my i3s and I'm wondering whether your R1T could replace your i3 for daily driving. I'm on the fence about whether I should keep my i3s or trade it in when my R1T is finally available.

I've never owned two vehicles so strong in their respective areas, and so different from each other. The i3 is, for all of the reasons you state, nearly the ultimate city car. It carves through traffic like nothing else I've experienced. On top of that, it's efficiency often exceeds 4 mi/kwh.

The R1T's strengths are the i3's weaknesses. Handling at speed is composed, where the i3 can be unsettled. Your i3s is better than my i3 in that regard, but still not close to the Rivian. The R1T has much better range and faster charging. By far the best road trip vehicle I've owned.

I seriously considered keeping only the Rivian, but I'm very happy I decided to go with the combination.

 

[Kuro-Rivian]

I would prefer not to give that kind of control to a utility company.

As far as a "better managed and smarter electrical grid" is concerned, I only agree if isn't being done in lieu of a stronger and more robust one.

Not that it matters, where I live I'm able to currently avoid this nonsense.

Then don't. The OP voluntarily participates and no on is forcing him to do anything. I'm not sure how any of that translates into "nonsense" or what type of nonsense you are avoiding. What am I missing, please explain?

 

[MDH]

With two EVs, solar panels and Powerwalls vampire drain is a non-issue. I charge both vehicles largely for free. No need to get the power company involved.

 

[SASSquatch]

I've never owned two vehicles so strong in their respective areas, and so different from each other. The i3 is, for all of the reasons you state, nearly the ultimate city car. It carves through traffic like nothing else I've experienced. On top of that, it's efficiency often exceeds 4 mi/kwh.

The R1T's strengths are the i3's weaknesses. Handling at speed is composed, where the i3 can be unsettled. Your i3s is better than my i3 in that regard, but still not close to the Rivian. The R1T has much better range and faster charging. By far the best road trip vehicle I've owned.

I seriously considered keeping only the Rivian, but I'm very happy I decided to go with the combination.

You are making me really consider holding on to the i3s. I leased an i3 before purchasing the i3s so I can attest to the handling differences between the two. I loved the i3 - it was my first purely electric vehicle but the range on the early models (80's in theory but much worse in not perfect conditions) just made it difficult. The buffeting on the highway was unsettling as well.

But as a city car it is nearly perfect. I have never experienced such a tight turning radius. The i3s eliminates the handling issue at high speeds. It has double the range of the 2015 and before models and when I run it in the city I get the same crazy efficiency. I've gotten nearly 5 mi/kwh.

The only drawback are the tires. It is so easy to scrap the tire when I pick up a nail because the shoulder is so small and I barely get 13K on them before they need replaced.

 

[VSG]

I'm not sure why Rivian has to do anything here? Lots of utilities have programs for balancing loads, such has ToU rates. Some have smart meters or devices that they can use to control your use or even implement dynamic pricing for delivery of electricity and/or generation of electricity (via solar, etc.). My utility has a program where you can be paid put the device on your electric water heater and let them switch it on or off to control the load. Controlling the load from EV chargers sounds like it would be more effective, but I don't know why the vehicle model should matter. They certainly don't care who makes the water heater ...

 

[140 degrees]

I'm not sure why Rivian has to do anything here? Lots of utilities have programs for balancing loads, such has ToU rates. Some have smart meters or devices that they can use to control your use or even implement dynamic pricing for delivery of electricity and/or generation of electricity (via solar, etc.). My utility has a program where you can be paid put the device on your electric water heater and let them switch it on or off to control the load. Controlling the load from EV chargers sounds like it would be more effective, but I don't know why the vehicle model should matter. They certainly don't care who makes the water heater ...

You make some good points. The control could be in either the charger or the vehicle. In my case, Rivian also makes my charger, so they could be involved either way. There is room for lots of creative ideas.

 

[CheezyNachos]

Then don't. The OP voluntarily participates and no on is forcing him to do anything. I'm not sure how any of that translates into "nonsense" or what type of nonsense you are avoiding. What am I missing, please explain?

Meaning several things:

1) Roughly 98.74% of my city owned utility company's total electricity already comes from the use of hydroelectric power.

2) My standard electrical rate is $0.1007/kWh. With Power Cost Adjustment (PCAC) it was $0.0955 last month. There is a time of use plan available which would make off-peak $0.0640/kWh. Using the last month as an example, the rate after PCAC would have been $0.0588/kWh.

3) This is all without having to give the utility control of my charging or having me jump through hoops, because there is no need to. They already ensure sufficient infrastructure is available and charge reasonable rates.

 

[VSG]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's wrong for BMW to try promoting that, but having to have each auto manufacturer partner with each electric utility is not a scalable solution. For this to be effective it has to be enabled by the utility and not specific to the load. My utility has rolling out out smart meters in part to enable this sort of thing.

 

[Kuro-Rivian]

Meaning several things:

1) Roughly 98.74% of my city owned utility company's total electricity already comes from the use of hydroelectric power.

2) My standard electrical rate is $0.1007/kWh. With Power Cost Adjustment (PCAC) it was $0.0955 last month. There is a time of use plan available which would make off-peak $0.0640/kWh. Using the last month as an example, the rate after PCAC would have been $0.0588/kWh.

3) This is all without having to give the utility control of my charging or having me jump through hoops, because there is no need to. They already ensure sufficient infrastructure is available and charge reasonable rates.

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense. Curious, if there was a need though, wouldn't you be willing to hand over a little control for the greater community good?

 

[VSG]

Meaning several things:

1) Roughly 98.74% of my city owned utility company's total electricity already comes from the use of hydroelectric power.

2) My standard electrical rate is $0.1007/kWh. With Power Cost Adjustment (PCAC) it was $0.0955 last month. There is a time of use plan available which would make off-peak $0.0640/kWh. Using the last month as an example, the rate after PCAC would have been $0.0588/kWh.

3) This is all without having to give the utility control of my charging or having me jump through hoops, because there is no need to. They already ensure sufficient infrastructure is available and charge reasonable rates.

Sooo ... just because it isn't relevant in your specific situation means it's nonsense? You do realize that your situation is not even close to typical? Electric capacity has always been calculated for peak use. Anything that helps to spread the load between peak and off-peak times is extremely helpful as a means to meet demand and to avoid building excess capacity like we currently do. And allowing the power company to manage the load better helps to deal with extreme situations, when weather or other disaster affects delivery.

Don't participate if you don't want to, but it's not "nonsense", it's a reasonable strategy for a public utility or any other business to pursue.

 

[CheezyNachos]

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense. Curious, if there was a need though, wouldn't you be willing to hand over a little control for the greater community good?

Then there are probably better ways than Manufacturer/Utility partnerships that take control of your charging.

VSG provided decent commentary regarding this.

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