Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[DuoRivians]

I'd love to see Munro actually do a full cost breakdown for the top 10 non-Tesla EVs compared to the Tesla ones for the charging circuitry including all the wiring in the cars.

Yes, it’d be interesting.

When people say “NACS” is cheaper, they’re almost always just regurgitating what they read online, most often from Tesla fanboys. And most often just referring to the physical plug only, not what comes before it or after it

Sponsored

 

[Craigins]

I'd love to see Munro actually do a full cost breakdown for the top 10 non-Tesla EVs compared to the Tesla ones for the charging circuitry including all the wiring in the cars.

Have you done a patent search to make sure tesla doesn't have a patent on the ac/dc switching circuit for EV charging.

Physical cost comparison is only one part of the actual cost. There would also be more nre for developing the circut after licensing. Then testing, potentially certification if tesla wanted each design certified before opening them up to SC infrastructure.

 

[docwhiz]

And just to be clear there is also only one set of installed cables on CCS too. For AC Level 1/2, only cables installed are the ac pins. For DC, only the dc pin cables are installed (except for communications wire, which is there for any plug type)

No CCS cable has simultaneously both AC AND DC cables installed. One or the other

We're talking about the car.
NACS has ONE set of power cables inside the car. (BTW, also in the cable to the car from the charge station)
CCS has TWO sets of power cables inside the car. One for AC, another for DC. This is expensive (as stated in the Munro video).

 

[DuoRivians]

We're talking about the car.
NACS has ONE set of power cables inside the car. (BTW, also in the cable to the car from the charge station)
CCS has TWO sets of power cables inside the car. One for AC, another for DC. This is expensive (as stated in the Munro video).

It’s not. Once it goes past the AC to DC inverter inside of a CCS car, it’s all the same. After this point, there is a single line of cable for power (not two).

Again, Tesla cars have to determine which sort of current is going down its wire, before it sends the current to AC/DC inverter first or straight ahead to battery. You cannot mix the two. This added logic comes from added circuitry, which is costly too.

Edit: furthermore, there are actual advantages to this CCS setup, including more straightforward implementation of V2H, V2G solutions

 

[docwhiz]

It’s not. Once it goes past the AC to DC inverter inside of a CCS car, it’s all the same.

Again, Tesla cars have to determine which sort of current is going down its wire. You cannot mix the two. This added logic comes from added circuitry, which is costly too.

CCS needs TWO sets of power cables inside the car. One set to the battery. Another set to the inverter. This costs money.
Tesla only has ONE set of power cables connected to both the inverter/charger and the battery. This saves money. No additional wires or circuits. They're connected in parallel.

 

[DuoRivians]

CCS needs TWO sets of power cables inside the car. One set to the battery. Another set to the inverter. This costs money.
Tesla only has ONE set of power cables connected to both the inverter/charger and the battery. This saves money. No additional wires or circuits. They're connected in parallel.

Okay, officially on the ignore list. Can’t reason with stupid

 

[Zorg]

From reading some of your responses in here, it appears that you are well inexperienced with capital accounting amongst other things. There is a lot more that goes into installing a charging station than the initial cost.

Please enlighten us with your knowledge of capital accounting. That ought to be pretty good.

 

[docwhiz]

 

[Dark-Fx]

Okay, officially on the ignore list. Can’t reason with stupid

Surprised it took you that long. Seems like that person just likes arguing with the goal of trying to upset people. Intentionally misunderstood my argument several pages ago after spelling it out for them. Now they're using what they acted like they didn't understand as an argument against you.

 

[manitou202]

It’s not. Once it goes past the AC to DC inverter inside of a CCS car, it’s all the same. After this point, there is a single line of cable for power (not two).

Again, Tesla cars have to determine which sort of current is going down its wire, before it sends the current to AC/DC inverter first or straight ahead to battery. You cannot mix the two. This added logic comes from added circuitry, which is costly too.

Edit: furthermore, there are actual advantages to this CCS setup, including more straightforward implementation of V2H, V2G solutions

I'll be interested if Ford maintains the V2H capability of the F150 if it switches to the NACS plug. Tesla seems to have no interest in V2H or V2G because it competes with their battery storage business. So it might be tricky to implement.

 

[DuoRivians]

I'll be interested if Ford maintains the V2H capability of the F150 if it switches to the NACS plug. Tesla seems to have no interest in V2H or V2G because it competes with their battery storage business. So it might be tricky to implement.

There are no indications yet whether Ford will keep both NACS and CCS or do the entire replacement.

There are also no indications whether Ford is contractually obligated to follow through. To me, the announcement seemed like a soft agreement at best.

 

[Yossarian]

OK, after reading all 24 pages and viewing the Munro video (most of it anyway), I'm convinced this is an important issue. I don't think I've seen another subject get as many responses as quickly. The level of passion of many of the responses is also pretty impressive.

 

[emoore]

There are no indications yet whether Ford will keep both NACS and CCS or do the entire replacement.

There are also no indications whether Ford is contractually obligated to follow through. To me, the announcement seemed like a soft agreement at best.

Yep just like when Ford invested in Rivian. They are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[azbill]

What is wrong with having AC and DC on the same pins?

The current doesn't flow until the handshake from plug to car is made.

A single fault in the car results in an AC to Dc short. CCS is fail-safe.

 

[azbill]

We're talking about the car.
NACS has ONE set of power cables inside the car. (BTW, also in the cable to the car from the charge station)
CCS has TWO sets of power cables inside the car. One for AC, another for DC. This is expensive (as stated in the Munro video).

CCS is fail-safe, NACS is not. Munro is an idiot for not recognizing this.

Sponsored