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Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

DuoRivians

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Does this mean that the Lectron type of adapter works on Tesla chargers, just not their SuperChargers? And does it also mean that a different adapter, one that apparently can be made only from the rarest material on earth, Elontanium, needs to be developed to allow J1772 connectivty to Tesla SC's?
Lectron adapter only works with L2 Tesla chargers, eg Tesla wall chargers.

So far, the magic dock is the only NACS to CCS adapter that works at superchargers. Why they haven’t announced or released a more consumer wide adapter is the question
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israndy

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A Tesla fanboi here so feel free to unleash your bile like I have seen earlier in the thread

I suspect the reason they haven't gone wider with the MagicDoc is they have learned some things about the first design and are busy back at the drawing table. Perhaps they'll go into production with a slightly longer cable being installed for those Fords and Lucids, perhaps there have been some failures that they wanna engineer out before mass production.

In the Tesla world everything moves in ElonTime where "two weeks" can take more than two years. But it's still been faster than the rest of the industry, and everything eventually comes to market.
 

DuoRivians

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A Tesla fanboi here so feel free to unleash your bile like I have seen earlier in the thread

I suspect the reason they haven't gone wider with the MagicDoc is they have learned some things about the first design and are busy back at the drawing table. Perhaps they'll go into production with a slightly longer cable being installed for those Fords and Lucids, perhaps there have been some failures that they wanna engineer out before mass production.

In the Tesla world everything moves in ElonTime where "two weeks" can take more than two years. But it's still been faster than the rest of the industry, and everything eventually comes to market.
If Tesla releases a good NACS to CCS adapter and allows 3rd party oem apps to work with Superchargers (via APIs), I think that’s great.

Tesla could charge a lot of money for both adapter and kwh surcharge for non-Tesla use at Superchargers, and people will still pay up.

I think Tesla should do this and make money.

I am strictly opposed to those who are adamant that all oems should now ditch CCS and install NACS in their cars instead.
 
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If Tesla releases a good NACS to CCS adapter and allows 3rd party oem apps to work with Superchargers (via APIs), I think that’s great.

Tesla could charge a lot of money for both adapter and kwh surcharge for non-Tesla use at Superchargers, and people will still pay up.

I think Tesla should do this and make money.

I am strictly opposed to those who are adamant that all oems should now ditch CCS and install NACS in their cars instead.
Knowing how Tesla works you will likely be required to have the Tesla app, not a 3rd party app to work with the supercharger. Other than that an adapter makes sense for manufacturers that are not willing to install the NACS on their vehicles.

Tesla operates very much like Apple in a closed ecosystem.
 
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DuoRivians

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Knowing how Tesla works you will likely be required to have the Tesla app, not a 3rd party app to work with the supercharger. Other than that an adapter makes sense for manufacturers that are not willing to install the NACS on their vehicles.

Tesla operates very much like Apple in a closed ecosystem.
Ford drivers will be able to use their Ford app + adapter to charge at Superchargers. I presume this is enabled via Tesla supercharger APIs being called by Ford.

If available for Ford, why not for all oems? In any case, if one has to use the Tesla app, it's not the end of the world.

Also, while this is a development for European charging, it may signal that Tesla is becoming more open with respect to payments: https://goedkoperrijden.blogspot.com/2023/05/teslas-supercharger-network-opens-up.html?m=1
 

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Does anyone know how Tesla identify the cars for payment authorization? Sounds like the deal with Ford would allow plug and charge.
 

DuoRivians

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Does anyone know how Tesla identify the cars for payment authorization? Sounds like the deal with Ford would allow plug and charge.
I believe Tesla superchargers now support the ISO 15118 standard for plug and charge capability. Not positive though.
 

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Does anyone know how Tesla identify the cars for payment authorization? Sounds like the deal with Ford would allow plug and charge.
If Tesla is actually following the CCS protocol like they claim NACS supports, then it should just be an implementation of the standard Plug 'n charge part of CCS.
 

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This right here.

Is the CCS plug worse than the NACS plug? Sure, it's bigger, but if you use an updated EA or Chargepoint charger with the longer more flexible cables, it's not an issue.

Is CCS reliable? Yes, just as reliable as NACS. However, CCS charge networks tend to be not as reliable. This has nothing to do with the standard. If EA converts all of their plugs to NACS the same exact problems would exist.

The point is we need more than one reliable charging network, and we need an open standard. If one company controls the standard or is the only reliable network we will have problems in the future and will also be at the mercy of a single company.

I don't care which plug wins the plug war, but it needs to be an open standard with no ties to a single automaker. We also desperately need more charging networks from other companies that can provide similar reliability to the Tesla network.
Having an open standard does not mean the standard does not change. The standards group responsible for maintaining the standard can drive impactful changes to its standard just like a standard developed by a single company. Is a board better than a company at making these decisions? That strongly depends on the structure of the standards board. Tesla has sold nearly 2 million vehicles and will not make significant changes to its charging standard that negatively impacts the vehicles on the road today. I only have one preference and that is to have as many options to charge as possible. Having a preference for EA over Tesla and EVgo sounds very similar to choosing Shell over Chevron and BP. I wonder if vegas has already started publishing odds? :CWL:
 

manitou202

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Having an open standard does not mean the standard does not change. The standards group responsible for maintaining the standard can drive impactful changes to its standard just like a standard developed by a single company. Is a board better than a company at making these decisions? That strongly depends on the structure of the standards board. Tesla has sold nearly 2 million vehicles and will not make significant changes to its charging standard that negatively impacts the vehicles on the road today. I only have one preference and that is to have as many options to charge as possible. Having a preference for EA over Tesla and EVgo sounds very similar to choosing Shell over Chevron and BP. I wonder if vegas has already started publishing odds? :CWL:
I’m assuming most (if not all) automakers have a seat on the board for the CCS standard. So odds are they wouldn’t collectively do something to completely change the standard in a detrimental way. No single automaker can make a change to give themselves an advantage or punish another automaker.

With NACS you only have Tesla. They could make changes that only benefit their vehicles, that punish other automakers, or are not in the greater interest of everyone. Until that changes I would not sign up for NCAS.
 

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Jarico75

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Yeah I mean kempower and others are having a lot of success in Europe with CCS, as is Tesla! There needs to be one standard. Tesla is the bad actor here, and Ford is enabling. Sure, Tesla charging port is smaller but at the end of the day who cares at all? It’s delivering electricity and the hole is covered when it’s not. We need a national standard like the EU so that every EV is compatible with every charging network. The more ports there are, the more expensive it is to build chargers for companies as well. I say this as a former Tesla owner, but NACS needs to go for global standardization. This is ridiculous and imo embarrassing for the automakers which are usually good at standards.
Why is Tesla the bad actor? Arguably, the drive to EVs has largely been influenced by Tesla's successes. Tesla doesn't appear to be pushing its connector on any other manufacturers. Ford is making this choice on its own. The CCS standard has a major issue......... The reliability of the companies using its standard. I do not care which standard is used or even if there are multiple. The conversation needs to shift from "CCS or NACS" to "How do we make the charging networks more reliable?"
 

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FWIW, not only is CCS a requirement for NEVI funds, but stations must also implement plug and charge as well as the ability to use a single network's login for any of the networks that have received NEVI funds for station construction.

The J1772 and CCS2 plugs are defined by the International Electrotechnical Commission.

IEC receives input on its standards from a variety of sources, including CharIN, which is the industry's main body for handling CCS. Pretty much everyone in the industry is in CharIN, including Tesla.
 

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The CCS standard has a major issue......... The reliability of the companies using its standard.
That includes Tesla by the way. It's not the standard or the connector that's the problem, I agree.
 

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A Tesla fanboi here so feel free to unleash your bile like I have seen earlier in the thread

I suspect the reason they haven't gone wider with the MagicDoc is they have learned some things about the first design and are busy back at the drawing table. Perhaps they'll go into production with a slightly longer cable being installed for those Fords and Lucids, perhaps there have been some failures that they wanna engineer out before mass production.

In the Tesla world everything moves in ElonTime where "two weeks" can take more than two years. But it's still been faster than the rest of the industry, and everything eventually comes to market.
Tesla charging fan here…. My feelings is Tesla has moved to the point that they deem the NEVI funding not important and insignificant due to being spread around between so many companies and the unnecessary charger installations tesla would have to install. I think with Ford switching to NACS connector is a sign that the magic dock is dead. Ford wouldn’t need to change from CCS to NACS if all the super chargers were going to have magic docks anyways.

Also it makes no sense for Ford to have its dealers install chargers with a CCS connector when they plan to switch all EV’s to NACS. I’m guessing this is a money saving move by Ford for its e dealers…. Tesla can likely sell rebranded tesla superchargers to Ford dealers for a fraction of the cost of what a CCS charger would cost for those dealers that are signed up for the Eproduct dealerships
 
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israndy

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Someone mentioned earlier that you don't wanna have a situation where the DC contactor welds itself shut so DC is presented at the power port, someone posted this document on Tesla Motors Club:

North_American_Charging_Standard_AC_DC_Pin_Sharing

Looks like Tesla is taking safety very seriously and document it there.
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