MKBHD - Social Media Star Sells His Tesla Cybertruck Because He "Liked the Rivian Better"

[pamalabama]

all, I could care less if I reduced my battery a percent or two over the past 18 months, which based on this study is unlikely due to averaging 50% SOC and temperature considerations. If anything this confirms that I'm where I want to be. I'm not going to let a trivial 1% - 2% concern like this affect my vehicle usage pattern, or fret about last minute "charge to 70%".

you're not averaging 50% SOC, nor should you. You should limit to 50% because that is the maximum you will ever hit. If you are at 50% SOC and you plug in and your car hits 75% in 3 hrs, it just sits there all night at a high SOC?

There is no logical reason to justify going to 75% for daily use if you don't need it

That study is only over 10 months. The increase in degradation is significant because this has an effect over the many years you own the vehicle.

If you didn't come across any study like this, did you come across any studies at all? I'm guessing, no, because they all come to a similar conclusion to this one.

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[Zoidz]

you're not averaging 50% SOC, nor should you. You should limit to 50% because that is the maximum you will ever hit. If you are at 50% SOC and you plug in and your car hits 75% in 3 hrs, it just sits there all night at a high SOC?

There is no logical reason to justify going to 75% for daily use if you don't need it

That study is only over 10 months. The increase in degradation is significant because this has an effect over the many years you own the vehicle.

If you didn't come across any study like this, did you come across any studies at all? I'm guessing, no, because they all come to a similar conclusion to this one.

As I CLEARLY said, I'm not going to let this trivial few percentage points affect my usage. I'm more than satisfied operating at 50% SOC over the long term. I plug in before I go to bed and charge to 70% (not 75%) which as you should know, in my Gen1 is not actually 70%. I have to be prepared for days when I have unexpected travel come up, which happens 2 - 3 days a week.

I've read MANY studies of EV real world usage battery degradation over many years, regardless of what you may guess. There are other historical threads here where we discussed this years ago to prove it. Additionally, I'm following Rivian's recommended charge patterns which I am more than fine with. Your opinion may be different which is fine, I really don't care.

 

[pamalabama]

As I CLEARLY said, I'm not going to let this trivial few percentage points affect my usage. I'm more than satisfied operating at 50% SOC over the long term. I plug in before I go to bed and charge to 70% (not 75%) which as you should know, in my Gen1 is not actually 70%. I have to be prepared for days when I have unexpected travel come up, which happens 2 - 3 days a week.

I've read MANY studies of EV real world usage battery degradation over many years, regardless of what you may guess. There are other historical threads here where we discussed this years ago to prove it. Additionally, I'm following Rivian's recommended charge patterns which I am more than fine with. Your opinion may be different which is fine, I really don't care.

70% SOC is actually higher because there is typically quite a generous bottom buffer

The 70% that rivian recommends has no basis on reality

you can indeed go higher if you have a software limited pack

 

[elektrode]

I read the first post and skipped to the end. Man, what a different planet this thread landed on.

 

[Zoidz]

70% SOC is actually higher because there is typically quite a generous bottom buffer

The 70% that rivian recommends has no basis on reality

you can indeed go higher if you have a software limited pack

Your opinion may be different which is fine, I really don't care.

 

[Riv_Ian]

This almost feels like an intentional distraction from the original point that a well respected and influential tech/auto reviewer has disposed of his CT since he likes his R1T better. I don’t agree with all the individuals vandalizing people’s CT’s. As much a I dislike them, it’s clearly wrong to damage others’ personal property just because you don’t agree with their purchase. It is reflective of how polarizing the vehicle and Musk are though - I can’t think of any similar examples presently. I would certainly want to disassociate myself from the CT if I were in MKBHD’s position.

 

[Ecupip]

This almost feels like an intentional distraction from the original point that a well respected and influential tech/auto reviewer has disposed of his CT since he likes his R1T better. I don’t agree with all the individuals vandalizing people’s CT’s. As much a I dislike them, it’s clearly wrong to damage others’ personal property just because you don’t agree with their purchase. It is reflective of how polarizing the vehicle and Musk are though - I can’t think of any similar examples presently. I would certainly want to disassociate myself from the CT if I were in MKBHD’s position.

Jerryrig decided to part ways with his CT too. He cited concerns regarding the public perception associated with it and did not want that to affect his mobility business.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Finally someone else here who gets it. I have said a lot this until I am blue in the face on this forum, FB and other places.

I keep my resting SoC between 50-55%, normally at 50%. I charge up just before I go and never leave it at a high SoC. I recharge as soon as I can to minimize DoD (depth of discharge). I Iive in a hot climate so even more important to follow this. High temps kill almost all lithium batteries even if LFP are a bit more tolerant. None of them like high temps and high SoC.

Following this approach is why 2 of my Teslas that have over 3-year-old batteries have 2% or less degradation despite living in Texas and not being able to keep them plugged in all the time for better thermal management. My EV motorcycle that has a 6 year old pack has less than 2% degradation.

I know I've posted this link a few times as well. This covers some of the studies.
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

But without access to the BMS and a full depletion test, you don't actually know if they have 2% degradation......

 

[elektrode]

Megalomaniac CEOs throwing Seig Heils will have a certain effect.

(I know what I saw with my own eyes)

 

[TexasBob]

calendar degradation IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT degradation


As you can see, 70% is the worst SOC because it gives you almost the equivalent degradation as charging to 100%. So why not charge higher then?

Cycle aging is insignificant in a battery's life span

My point was that cycle aging on anything above 1,500 cycles is totally irrelevant to a vehicle owner (450k - 600k miles) and 70% gives customers a good balance between long range and degradation. You gain nothing significant from a cycle degradation perspective by charging to a lower amount and you gain a lot of driving functionality / peace of mind by being charged to 70% (as Rivian suggests) or 80% (e.g. Tesla).

However....

As I am sure you know but other folks may not, the reason that Rivian recommends 70% is related to something that this chart does not show and the cycling study did not measure: SOC impact on the speed of calendar aging. The most significant degradation is calendar aging - as you have pointed out on many posts. NMC batteries degrade much faster when you hold them at a 100% SOC than if you merely cycle them to 100% and then let them discharge. The calendar aging is much slower when at a 70% SOC. Rivian's 70% recommendation is not related to cyclic degradation at all. It is the same reason that iPhones learn your sleep habits and only charge to 80% when you plug them at night. They wait until 30 minutes before your alarm is scheduled to go off before charging the final 20% to avoid accelerated calendar degradation.

 

[pamalabama]

My point was that cycle aging on anything above 1,500 cycles is totally irrelevant to a vehicle owner (450k - 600k miles) and 70% gives customers a good balance between long range and degradation. You gain nothing significant from a cycle degradation perspective by charging to a lower amount and you gain a lot of driving functionality / peace of mind by being charged to 70% (as Rivian suggests) or 80% (e.g. Tesla).

However....

As I am sure you know but other folks may not, the reason that Rivian recommends 70% is related to something that this chart does not show and the cycling study did not measure: SOC impact on the speed of calendar aging. The most significant degradation is calendar aging - as you have pointed out on many posts. NMC batteries degrade much faster when you hold them at a 100% SOC than if you merely cycle them to 100% and then let them discharge. The calendar aging is much slower when at a 70% SOC. Rivian's 70% recommendation is not related to cyclic degradation at all. It is the same reason that iPhones learn your sleep habits and only charge to 80% when you plug them at night. They wait until 30 minutes before your alarm is scheduled to go off before charging the final 20% to avoid accelerated calendar degradation.

did you even read my chart?

70% is just as bad as storing at 100% from a calendar aging perspective

you have to store at 50% to reduce calendar aging.

if you are storing at 70% you might as well store at 90%

 

[Riv_Ian]

The laser pointer continues to be pulled out.

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