Quad vs Dual - snow performance?

[DJC]

Hey all - I did some searching before posting, but didn't see anything specific on this topic. Also recognize it might be too early to tell given the Dual Motor deliveries haven't been through a winter season yet...

I hold a Quad Motor R1T reservation - I put it on hold earlier this year to wait on news about the Powered Tonneau coming back. Now we have more clarity, I'm thinking about re-activating the order / grabbing an R1T from the store.

Does anyone have any strong feelings either way on whether the quad motor will perform better in snow vs the dual? We live in Lake Tahoe, so that's the main consideration for performance of the car vs off-road capabilities (albeit, plenty of dirt roads around here). Assume both would have snow tires, so it's purely a question of motor performance vs wheels/tires.

Cheers!

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[jjswan33]

I’d assume no difference with snow mode engaged. In other drive modes more throttle in the QM or DM performance could cause traction issues.

 

[R.I.P.]

Hey all - I did some searching before posting, but didn't see anything specific on this topic. Also recognize it might be too early to tell given the Dual Motor deliveries haven't been through a winter season yet...

I hold a Quad Motor R1T reservation - I put it on hold earlier this year to wait on news about the Powered Tonneau coming back. Now we have more clarity, I'm thinking about re-activating the order / grabbing an R1T from the store.

Does anyone have any strong feelings either way on whether the quad motor will perform better in snow vs the dual? We live in Lake Tahoe, so that's the main consideration for performance of the car vs off-road capabilities (albeit, plenty of dirt roads around here). Assume both would have snow tires, so it's purely a question of motor performance vs wheels/tires.

Cheers!

The lack of a differential severely handicaps the quad motor version in snow, ice and very slippery conditions. The problem is masked somewhat with the snow mode, and obviously better tires help, but it's still only masking the problem the vehicle creates for itself with lateral traction.

The dual motor puts the differential back in, and has brought back very "normal" feeling lateral stability in the vehicle. We did extensive testing and documentation of the quad's issues on ice and snow in the "quad motor vs locking differential" thread.

You want the best handling possible in ice of snow? The dual motor with a differential will do that for you.

 

[R.I.P.]

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/quad-motor-vs-locking-diff.12010/

In this thread we delve deeply into why inherent stability on very slippery surfaces is sacrificed when you delete the differential (I e. The quad motor). The "software can cure anything" crowd made the subject contentious, but physics is physics, and software updates will never make concrete blocks fly. Neither will they ever be able to anchor a lateral traction wheel the way a differential does. Because of this, the dual motor setup is not prone to the sideways motion the quad has when it loses it's footing.

 

[DJC]

Thanks! So knowing what you know now about the snow performance, and given the climate we live in for 4/5 months of the year - would you recommend to go with the Dual or Quad?

 

[AxelR]

He literally just told you to get the dual ?

 

[djsider2]

So now that we're done with motors... can someone point me in the direction for the best/consensus take on tires/wheels... TIA

 

[DJC]

He literally just told you to get the dual ?

Yeah, thanks! But the quad is c00l and was the original plan. Still trying to decipher if the quad is meaningful less safe in the snow than the dual.

 

[R.I.P.]

Thanks! So knowing what you know now about the snow performance, and given the climate we live in for 4/5 months of the year - would you recommend to go with the Dual or Quad?

Dual for sure. I sold my quad & bought the dual for just that reason.

 

[LevelHeaded]

Still trying to decipher if the quad is meaningful less safe in the snow than the dual.

Doubtful

 

[R.I.P.]

Thanks! So knowing what you know now about the snow performance, and given the climate we live in for 4/5 months of the year - would you recommend to go with the Dual or Quad?

Dual for sure. I sold my quad & bought the dual for just that reason.

 

[jjswan33]

Yeah, thanks! But the quad is c00l and was the original plan. Still trying to decipher if the quad is meaningful less safe in the snow than the dual.

Absolutely not, it's a rock star in the snow when you are talking about snowy highways.

@R.I.P. and his argument about a differential plays very little role in highway snow traction and is far from the consensus.

 

[R.I.P.]

Thanks! So knowing what you know now about the snow performance, and given the climate we live in for 4/5 months of the year - would you recommend to go with the Dual or Quad?

Dual for sure. I sold my quad & bought the dual for just that reason.

 

[kylealden]

Thanks! So knowing what you know now about the snow performance, and given the climate we live in for 4/5 months of the year - would you recommend to go with the Dual or Quad?

FWIW I think the problems R.I.P. is calling out are most apparent in offroading or other situations where you're on a side slope - essentially the issue is that the quad motor is guessing at wheel traction until it actually applies torque to a given wheel; this can result in undesirable wheel spin and lateral slipping if you're on a low traction surface, which is potentially a big problem in a side slope, especially at low speed and starting from a stop.

For most drivers and most circumstances this is an edge case, and I wouldn't lose sleep over it if you're otherwise committed to the quad motors. It's going to a non-issue on roads at any speed, where the computers can continuously evaluate traction to meter torque (just as they would to apply brake vectoring), and where some of the advantages of a quad motor can stretch their legs.

All that said - traction control with brake vectoring and a differential is a well understood problem space, and I'd be very confident with dual motors. While I'm skeptical that the disadvantages of quad will be a big deal for most drivers under most conditions (including most offroading), likewise the advantages of quad are for pretty narrow and niche cases (beyond "gotta go fast" and "$100k burning a hole in my pocket"). The dual motor is lighter, cheaper, and gets better range.

I drive in snow a lot. If I was shopping today I'd buy a non-performance dual motor for the above reasons, and don't think I'd miss anything from my LE quad. (Except the 12V ports ?)

 

[R.I.P.]

So now that we're done with motors... can someone point me in the direction for the best/consensus take on tires/wheels... TIA

20-in wheels with dedicated snow tires for your situation.

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