Rivian Automatically Records "Incidents" - Privacy Concerns

[JamboF4]

My client would like to run yellow lights in private, your honor.

Funny

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[Ckwest]

This is a feature for your safety and legal coverage if something happens. It is designed to record potential accidents, and triggers a local recording to your vehicle/external drive under specific conditions highlighted in the manual including hard braking and safety systems (e.g. anti-collision or traction control) being triggered. This is a great feature if you want, say, proof that a collision wasn't your fault. You can turn it off in settings:

These recordings are kept on your vehicle and only accessible through Gear Guard (e.g., not by your insurer). Separate from Gear Guard, Rivian may upload some data from collisions, but that is not the same scope as the "incidents" you're viewing: Does Rivian access my Gear Guard videos? Can Rivian provide a copy of a video from my collision?

Rivian does not share data with outside insurers or data brokers: Do you share my driving data with insurance companies? - Support Center - Rivian

I noticed that my incidents where times when I had honked my horn- mostly to tell drivers in front of me that the light had turned green. Yes - inattentive drivers!!

 

[Joe Hoffman]

Great point. If incidents are turned on everything is captured but not saved other than hard braking and/ or near collisions. Obviously it will catch other stuff too. No one is a perfect driver.

I’m a perfect driver, Just ask my wife.

 

[Wispitgood]

I don't know how I just noticed this, but looking through the Drivecam screen, I noticed a tab called "Incidents". These are all "incidents" that Rivian automatically recognizes, records, and saves. I was unaware this was occurring in the background, and frankly, I don't like it at all.

My "incidents" tab was filled with yellow lights and other "dangerous" behavior that I'm sure any insurance provider would not be happy about.

What is the purpose of Rivian automatically saving these incidents? I find it hard to believe that my insurance (or the authorities) don't have access to these "incidents" if they wanted.

Personal Opinion on Privacy: I previously had Rivian auto insurance, but after talking to them in depth about their data sharing, I canceled. I learned that I was getting a substantial discount on insurance because I unknowingly agreed to a service that allows Rivian to capture all of my driving data. Yes, that could be viewed as a good thing. But I'm a firm believer that this isn't a "discount"...it's the new norm. What I mean by that is if you don't comply with sharing all of your data, you have to pay more. Not the other way around--where you get a discount if you do share your data. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to pay more to keep some privacy, but I shouldn't have to do that. Rivian joins the list of companies that are making it very expensive for customers not to share their data...and they do it under the guise of getting a "discount." As the years go by, we get more and more complacent and agree to give away more data and privacy all in the name of saving a few dollars. But, in reality, we aren't saving any money; they are just making it more expensive to keep your privacy. I had to choose between not sharing data and paying more vs. sharing all data and saving some money. Soon, the norm will be that every vehicle has full data sharing with insurance companies, and, assuming you even can opt-out, then you have to pay a significant premium. That's where the world is quickly headed. And I don't think anyone likes a world with zero privacy or ownership of your data.

I don't understand the issue in that you have to opt in with Rivian Insurance; you have a choice to use them or not. Unless there is such contract notification for any other insurance company, again there would have to be your approval. Privacy laws and federal laws protect us by requiring access permission to any private information.

As for Rivian insurance, they are not alone; as with other insurances, you can opt into using their tracker device to get lower pricing.

As long as you have to approve such access, then no issue.

Having that information can be very useful to you in several ways. Such as that "running a stop light" charge when your data shows otherwise, the speeding charge that data shows otherwise, the teenager who has a heavy foot or didn't just go to the store, that accident which your data shows was not your fault, proving to your wife you are not the bad driver she is always telling you are, but showing the she is a bad driver. (Divorce cost not covered).

 

[JamboF4]

Your are overthinking it. I hope you are wearing a quality tin-foil hat to bed each night also…. The other commenters made the real points about what it’s for..

Ouch

 

[EVfanCA]

I don't know how I just noticed this, but looking through the Drivecam screen, I noticed a tab called "Incidents". These are all "incidents" that Rivian automatically recognizes, records, and saves down. I was unaware this was occurring in the background, and frankly, I don't like it at all.

My "incidents" tab was filled with yellow lights and other "dangerous" behavior that I'm sure any insurance provider would not be happy about.

What is the purpose of Rivian automatically saving these incidents? I find it hard to believe that my insurance (or the authorities) don't have access to these "incidents" if they really wanted.

Personal Opinion on Privacy: I previously had Rivian auto insurance, but after talking to them in depth about their data sharing, I cancelled. I learned that I was getting a substantial discount on insurance because I unknowingly agreed to a service that allows Rivian to capture all of my driving data. Yes, that could be viewed as a good thing. But I'm a firm believer that this isn't really a "discount"...it's the new norm. What I mean by that is if you don't comply with sharing all of your data, you have to pay more. Not the other way around--where you get a discount if you do share your data. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to pay more to keep some privacy, but I shouldn't have to do that. Rivian joins the list of companies that are making it very expensive for customers to not share their data...and they do it by under the guise of getting a "discount". As the years go by, we get more and more complacent and agree to give away more data and privacy all in the name of saving a few dollars. But, in reality, we aren't saving any money; they are just making it more expensive to keep your privacy. I literally had to choose between not sharing data and paying more vs. sharing all data and saving some money. Soon, the norm will be that every vehicle has full data sharing with insurance companies, and, assuming you even have the ability to opt out, then you have to pay a significant premium. That's where the world is quickly headed. And I don't think anyone likes a world with zero privacy or ownership of your own data.

Hi everyone - From the Rivian Privacy team, I wanted to clear up a few misconceptions that some may have... We really do try our best to be very transparent and give as much choice to our customers as possible.

With respect to Gear Guard, you control the collection and use of Gear Guard images and video, which are stored locally on your vehicle (including the Incident Cam, which can be disabled, as one user pointed out), and we do not access or process these without your consent. We encourage you to plug a USB stick or external hard drive into the vehicle to capture video from your drives (and any collisions) if you want to have this record. We have heard from many customers wishing they had a video to prove that someone else hit them or that they were not at fault.

With respect to data sharing in the insurance context:

• Data Exchanges: First and foremost, we do not share your driving data with telematic exchange companies, such as LexisNexis or Verisk. I can't think of anyone who would want this.
• Insurance Remarketing. This program is no longer being offered by Rivian, but in the past, we asked Rivian vehicle owners by email if they would like us to share data one time with our insurance carrier partner, Nationwide, to calculate a safe driving discount for which they might be eligible. If the customer explicitly agreed, then we would send a limited set of data to Nationwide that included total distance driven, total time driven, hard braking and acceleration instances, and total time driven during certain times (e.g., at night). Again, this was done only with explicit customer consent.
• Insurance Customers. If a Rivian Insurance policyholder opts into our Driver Assistance discount, then we tell them that they are agreeing to share info with Nationwide. In this case, we share the number of miles they drive with Highway Assist (HWA) enabled and the total number of miles they drive. (The higher the % of miles with HWA gives customers a higher discount.) We DO NOT share location or detailed driving data with Nationwide for any insurance discounts.

If you do not use Rivian Insurance, and you have not consented in response to a Rivian email asking you if you want to be considered for an insurance discount, we would not have shared your driving data with our insurance provider.

Hope this is helpful. Please be thoughtful about what you put out there in a public forum, especially if you're not entirely clear on the facts, as it can mislead others and create unnecessary fear.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

They are useful in cases where there is a hit-and-run or where the other party denies responsibility.

If you are concerned about your privacy...and I think everyone should ask these questions...then I would suggest reading Rivian's policy and checking back frequently for any updates Rivian may make to these policies.

https://rivian.com/support/article/can-i-learn-more-about-rivians-privacy-policy-and-terms-of-use

https://rivian.com/en-US/privacy/notice

 

[trimotormusthave]

You're missing the point. Telematics exchange is a huge issue, and I don't like it either. Not the gear guard cam but using telematics to give you insurance rates is some 1984 shit, and I don't care for it. At least Rivian doesn't sell your telematics to third parties like lexis nexis or varirisk like GM did without their customer's knowledge (permission buried in a TOS for a product they are auto enrolled in).

People need to push back on this crap or it's only going to get worse.

Insurance companies can either raise rates across the board or selectively based on driving habits.

 

[trimotormusthave]

Your cell phone connects to everything already…location, speed, who you talk and when etc. It has to do this connect and communicate to cell towers. Are phone carriers more trustworthy? Vehicle navigation has all sorts public data transfer and can adjust traffic accordingly

 

[RoverZac]

Mine only records hard braking incidents. At one instance, I braked hard on purpose to trigger the save and was able to extract a license plate for someone else who had just been the victim of a hit and run.

Rivian emailed last month telling us they do not share information with insurers unless we specifically request it.

 

[RoverZac]

Your cell phone connects to everything already…location, speed, who you talk and when etc. It has to do this connect and communicate to cell towers. Are phone carriers more trustworthy? Vehicle navigation has all sorts public data transfer and can adjust traffic accordingly

Probably the reason you can get unlimited data for $15/line... ToS

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