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the long way downunder

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The small truck (10/10) may be a challenge given the need for a reasonable length bed. I would assume the frunk gets shrunk down and space efficiency improves.
The R2T pretty much has to be the dimensions of the Maverick. Maybe (maybe…) the bed could be a tad shorter, but given the demand for that truck, like the F-150, it is the definition of success in that category segment (up 75% when the market was collapsing in 22Q4.)

The R2S has to be a Bronco Sport but 7-seater. The compact SUV segment is growing. The Bronco Sport is a suspension kit and body kit on the lackluster Ford Escape – proving that buyers want the "off-road lifestyle" product packaging … exactly the brand image Rivian portrays … if I were making any of the product decisions at Rivian, I'd be bringing the R2 forward to 2023, showing a concept at the next electronics show, have an unveiling within 6 months and be taking orders with a $1000 deposit (to filter out the "why not" people who will put $100 refundable on anything) and build it anywhere, a third party factory, let Magna, Foxconn or similar build it till I could get a factory line running.

I think Rivian is putting its eggs in the EDV basket and I'm not sure it can prevail once Ford, GM, RAM and others from China-based companies, plus Tesla, come along with barebones last mile vans … light commercial fleet vehicle manufacture is a "how much do your batteries cost?" game … bigger operations are going to win.

Rivian is a niche, boutique, lifestyle manf for the foreseeable. If they get more huge orders for 100K EDVs, great, that's what they're counting on winning. But the R2 – if they don't just keep delaying it year over year, which I suspect is their current "quiet quit" – has to be in an expanding segment where buyers are paying a premium for the right product fit. It's usually a guessing game as to what will fit, but when the Maverick and the Bronco Sport have defined success and buyer demand, it's no guess, it's just a matter of bringing a profitable product to market and having the resources to go into mass production.

I'm not sure if Tesla publishes how many 5-seat vs 7-seat, but I assume the product has to offer 7-seat as an option even if most don't take it. There's some phenomenon in buyer behavior that they insist upon the hot rod option, then choose the econo engine, etc.
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If it has air suspension, that thing could be an off-road beast. Shorter wheelbase, surely lighter weight. If the ride height is there, can't imagine there being a much better off-road vehicle available.
 

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The R2T pretty much has to be the dimensions of the Maverick. Maybe (maybe…) the bed could be a tad shorter, but given the demand for that truck, like the F-150, it is the definition of success in that category segment (up 75% when the market was collapsing in 22Q4.)

The R2S has to be a Bronco Sport but 7-seater. The compact SUV segment is growing. The Bronco Sport is a suspension kit and body kit on the lackluster Ford Escape – proving that buyers want the "off-road lifestyle" product packaging … exactly the brand image Rivian portrays … if I were making any of the product decisions at Rivian, I'd be bringing the R2 forward to 2023, showing a concept at the next electronics show, have an unveiling within 6 months and be taking orders with a $1000 deposit (to filter out the "why not" people who will put $100 refundable on anything) and build it anywhere, a third party factory, let Magna, Foxconn or similar build it till I could get a factory line running.

I think Rivian is putting its eggs in the EDV basket and I'm not sure it can prevail once Ford, GM, RAM and others from China-based companies, plus Tesla, come along with barebones last mile vans … light commercial fleet vehicle manufacture is a "how much do your batteries cost?" game … bigger operations are going to win.

Rivian is a niche, boutique, lifestyle manf for the foreseeable. If they get more huge orders for 100K EDVs, great, that's what they're counting on winning. But the R2 – if they don't just keep delaying it year over year, which I suspect is their current "quiet quit" – has to be in an expanding segment where buyers are paying a premium for the right product fit. It's usually a guessing game as to what will fit, but when the Maverick and the Bronco Sport have defined success and buyer demand, it's no guess, it's just a matter of bringing a profitable product to market and having the resources to go into mass production.

I'm not sure if Tesla publishes how many 5-seat vs 7-seat, but I assume the product has to offer 7-seat as an option even if most don't take it. There's some phenomenon in buyer behavior that they insist upon the hot rod option, then choose the econo engine, etc.
I agree any R2T needs to be Maverick size, so around 200”. The issue is that the bed size is the same in the Maverick and R1T. So where do you cut 17” off the R1T to get down to Maverick size without touching the bed and having two rows?
 

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I agree any R2T needs to be Maverick size, so around 200”. The issue is that the bed size is the same in the Maverick and R1T. So where do you cut 17” off the R1T to get down to Maverick size without touching the bed and having two rows?
cut out the gear tunnel?
 

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It's become really popular for car mags and websites to do these clickbait headlines with random renderings to drive traffic to articles with zero information. I guess it gives people something to argue about.

I will wait for actual spy shots before clicking on one of these speculation articles.
 

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Well, that kills my idea of maybe cancelling and waiting for R2.
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So if you otherwise liked it, you’d cancel an order for some third party SWAG rendering?
 

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cut out the gear tunnel?
That saves a little as does the powered tonneau cover holder. Frunk could be reduced down in size to be like the Lightening.
 

the long way downunder

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I agree any R2T needs to be Maverick size, so around 200”. The issue is that the bed size is the same in the Maverick and R1T. So where do you cut 17” off the R1T to get down to Maverick size without touching the bed and having two rows?
I didn't mean to imply what I was suggesting is practically feasible … : )
Well, the R1S is around about 17 inches shorter than the R1T, but all behind the C pillar.
The R2T could lose a foot off the frunk and maybe have a smaller rear seat / cabin and still have the same size gear tunnel?
Maybe the R2T doesn't get a full-size spare and a compact spare could go under the rear bumper instead of in the bed (in order to stuff enough battery in it.) One thing I think the R2T could do to be a killer product is have mega range from similar 135kWh+ and be 2000lbs lighter than the R1T (because we can see from the Munro teardown the R1T is an over-engineered, heavy and inefficient design.)
 
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Why does it have to be a 7-seater? Surely that's what the larger R1S is for?

I think the R2 needs to be what the Model 3/Y are to the S/X. Less complex, lighter, much cheaper.
I don't quite "get" why the Model Y is a 7-seater. That seemed to be its "reason for being" according to Tesla, but the 3rd row is impractically small and most people have the 5-seater.

While I agree the R2 is patently a 3/Y intent, it can't be much less complex. I think it still has to have the "signature" R1 design (long arm, long travel suspension) but that might require a body-on-frame approach.

Maybe the R2 just gives up the pretense of being a pure design and goes for a simple three-casting glue-together like the Model Y. It will ride like crap, it will be cheap to build, cheap to buy and, like the Bronco Sport has zero in common with the Bronco, it is family in name only. I think that would be a real loss and a real shame. Nobody other than Rivian is in a position to say "yep, we looked at the Range Rover Sport and thought 'yeah, we can do that and make it actually a sport version of the Range Rover'" and they'd have an instant cult classic that everyone would want as the real off-road EV jalopy … Rivian suspension, hydraulic sways, awesome off-road, hot-rod quick on-road and handling worth throwing on some slicks and taking it to the race track. : )

They could price the R2 the same price as the R1 for its high end trim with all the "go fast, go hard, go long" stuff. They could still have the $44K entry level model with simplified everything, no frills, 70kWh.
 

MooreND23

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I didn't mean to imply what I was suggesting is practically feasible … : )
Well, the R1S is around about 17 inches shorter than the R1T, but all behind the C pillar.
The R2T could lose a foot off the frunk and maybe have a smaller rear seat / cabin and still have the same size gear tunnel?
Maybe the R2T doesn't get a full-size spare and a compact spare could go under the rear bumper instead of in the bed (in order to stuff enough battery in it.) One thing I think the R2T could do to be a killer product is have mega range from similar 135kWh+ and be 2000lbs lighter than the R1T (because we can see from the Munro teardown the R1T is an over-engineered, heavy and inefficient design.)
Truthfully I’m not sure how you could possibly shorter the frunk by anything more than a few inches and make it remotely useful, much less a foot. Similarly, having driven in my R1T the past couple months I’d say the cabin is about as tight as I would consider passable for a two row. On top of the fact that these are quite narrow for full size vehicles. Not sure the lower limit of cabin size people are willing to tolerate just my 2 cents.
 

the long way downunder

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Truthfully I’m not sure how you could possibly shorter the frunk by anything more than a few inches and make it remotely useful, much less a foot. Similarly, having driven in my R1T the past couple months I’d say the cabin is about as tight as I would consider passable for a two row. On top of the fact that these are quite narrow for full size vehicles. Not sure the lower limit of cabin size people are willing to tolerate just my 2 cents.
I don't pretend to have much of a clue as to how to shorten the R1. It looks like a lot of void space and the Munro teardown made it pretty clear they saw a lot of room for improvement.

But the R2 has to be a basically two sizes smaller than the R1.

If the R1 is a 80% of an F-150 footprint, the R2 is smaller than a Ranger, the same size as a Maverick.
If you get in a Maverick, I'm 6'1 and not svelte, but the Maverick is fine. I wouldn't swap it for my F-150, but compared to a Model Y, I'd say it's comparable, though the Y feels lighter and spacious because it's basically empty in the cabin and the Maverick is … full of old school dash and shifter and stuff that any EV owner these days would say "get rid of all that and give me a touchscreen and a stalk on the steering column."

Parked next to an F-150, lined up at the A pillar, the R1T is the same distance to the front axle, and looks "all hood" … the F-150 is longer forward of the A pillar because it has a lot of bumper and grill forward of the headlights … there's a ton of space in both vehicles that just seems to be void space resulting from the designers choosing the body lines and proportions. I think the R1 could lose some of its Range Rover-like hood and be better off for it: better aero, less front overhang, less weight. But it would take a visit to the lean design clinic to renovate the front end, remove the closed front metalwork and shape an open, flat frunk, then stuff all the cooling and EDM junk away, making it more compact with far fewer hoses and conduits (basically a Tesla "octovalve" makeover.)
 

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So if you otherwise liked it, you’d cancel an order for some third party SWAG rendering?
No, but considering how long Rivian is taking on orders, I figured I'd know what the R5S looks like before I get my R1S. :CWL:
 

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Oh I DEFINITELY remember the Brat And it’s amazing unprotected jump seats. Stupid government and their desire to stop people from being crushed in rollover accidents😌
Those “seats” were factory installed so the truck would be classified as a passenger vehicle to subvert the “chicken tax” imposed on imported trucks. A couple other brands did this too and once the trucks were imported they would remove the seats.
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