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Dark-Fx

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I think this is them trying to weasel out of that. If they can get just one other start up (Aptera) to join, then they get funding. No need to open it up anymore.
I'm really interested to see what happens on the adapter front. If Tesla doesn't offer a way for existing CCS and ChaDeMo vehicles to use the supercharging stations, without making people with those vehicles purchase adapters, I don't think they should get any government money for their brand new standard that competes with the existing recognized one. Tesla could have done this 8 years ago.
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kvenom

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I'm really interested to see what happens on the adapter front. If Tesla doesn't offer a way for existing CCS and ChaDeMo vehicles to use the supercharging stations, without making people with those vehicles purchase adapters, I don't think they should get any government money for their brand new standard that competes with the existing recognized one. Tesla could have done this 8 years ago.
Government needs to close this loophole then:

What’s important to keep in mind here is that the US government recently unlocked billions of dollars in funding for EV charging stations, and while the government didn’t require those stations to work with the CCS connector, it did require that the charging stations receiving funding work with EVs “from more than one automaker.”
 

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The way I read it, Tesla is saying they will "allow" every other EV maker to spend tens of millions of dollars to change their design to use the Tesla plug. Oh and BTW you still can't use our superchargers. Well, thanks I guess.

This will not "improve" the CCS standard, it will compete against it and prolong the current many-standards situation we have to deal with every day. If they truly wanted to improve CCS then they could become part of the consortium and work with all the other manufacturers to share IP and deploy a next-generation standard that suits everyone's needs. Oh wait, they tried that and didn't get their way so they gave up in a huff and are now trying to start their own club.

Tesla does what is in the best interest of Tesla, they aren't trying to address the needs of non-Tesla EV owners.
 

Dark-Fx

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Government needs to close this loophole then:
So back when Aptera sent out their petition, I complained about it, saying it wasn't the right thing for them to be doing, this was their response to me. I replied just now wanting to know the real deal behind the petition.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We value your opinion. Aptera believes in efficiency above all else— this petition is not about Tesla, Elon, or anything else. We believe things should be easy, and no matter who makes the best plug, even if that’s Tesla, we are going to rally behind it as a company because efficiency is at our core. In Aptera, less is more, and how much something costs is also all about efficiency. The Tesla plug is smaller, easier to use, and way cheaper to install than the existing standard.
 

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Ahh, you have to love debates over standards.

I remember...

HD DVD or BluRay. I thought HD DVD would survive...
Minidisc vs CD? My bet was on a MD player...still have one.
Anyone want to buy a Zune?
How about a blackberry?

So here's my obviously important opinion. I think the Tesla standard survives as long as they open their network to anyone who uses their plug. As a manufacturer, it may cost me to redesign (or launch an adapter) but I'd rather give a positive customer experience on the Tesla network than the crappy network that is EA.
 

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The way I read it, Tesla is saying they will "allow" every other EV maker to spend tens of millions of dollars to change their design to use the Tesla plug. Oh and BTW you still can't use our superchargers. Well, thanks I guess.
No, the site specifically says they welcome other EV's to use their network, once they implement this connector.

Essentially, you're looking at Tesla opening up their network to non-Tesla's. The only catch is you need to use their connector. They decided they don't want to spend the money to open it up, they should just make everyone else spend the money.
 

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Tesla is opening up their proprietary charging solution,

Opening the North American Charging Standard | Tesla



Hopefully this will improve the CCS standard, or Tesla will get more to adapt to their standard. Whatever it is this is a good move (whatever their motive is).

NACS-Blog-Image-02.png
The motive is to “control the flow of the fuel source, like oil companies work hard to control gasoline and diesel.
 

DJG

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I'm really interested to see what happens on the adapter front. If Tesla doesn't offer a way for existing CCS and ChaDeMo vehicles to use the supercharging stations, without making people with those vehicles purchase adapters, I don't think they should get any government money for their brand new standard that competes with the existing recognized one. Tesla could have done this 8 years ago.
This isn't about IRA money. The law is written and the law requires CCS. So unless they are vying for a law amendment, it doesn't matter.

My take on it is that Tesla recognizes that their network superiority has its days numbered with the passing of IRA. Their only shot is to come out with this, which they hope will catch on with consumers that will then ask for manufacturers to change standards before time runs out.
 

NY_Rob

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Well if they actually do open their network, with all the connector/protocol details now available what's stopping someone from manufacturing a Tesla to CCS adapter?
 

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kvenom

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Well, that's what I meant by "opening their network"..
In Tesla's world that could mean we need the VIN of your vehicle to make sure it complies with our standards and the charger is being used in "good faith"
 

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No, the site specifically says they welcome other EV's to use their network, once they implement this connector
It's very carefully worded, but what it says is:
"we look forward to future electric vehicles incorporating the NACS design and charging at Tesla’s North American Supercharging and Destination Charging networks."

To break that down, other EVs can already charge at the Tesla Destination chargers - we do not need a new standard for that to happen. The thing that prevents other EVs from using the superchargers is the communications protocol, which is specifically exempted from this Tesla-announced NACS "standard" - the Tesla plug is just "a purely electrical and mechanical interface agnostic to use case and communication protocol".

In other words, they have totally left open their ability to license or restrict who can use the superchargers, and have made no promise here that the superchargers will be available to anyone other than Tesla owners,

While this move may be in Tesla's short-term interest, it is also short-sighted. Competing standards rarely result in the best technical solution prevailing (insert obligatory VHS vs BetaMax reference here...), instead what happens is the marketplace is treated like a fruit stand in an action movie - left in shambles until the pricipals sort out their differences. That is NOT good for the millions of us who own non-Tesla vehicles, and I would argue it's not good long-term for Tesla owners either.
 

NY_Rob

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In Tesla's world that could mean we need the VIN of your vehicle to make sure it complies with our standards and the charger is being used in "good faith"
Okay, so I guess what you guys are getting at is Tesla may only authorize charging for vehicles that have the Tesla socket as OEM and not allow the unwashed masses to connect/charge via Tesla to CCS adapter.
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