Upgrading capacity to home?

[EarlyAdptr]

I met with an electrician at our house today. He said we're maxed out on the current panel. I trust him, but would like to verify that. For the record, we do have a lot of heavy load appliances in our house (most not used) - 3 dryers, 1 in-wall heater, a hot tub, a sauna. We took out the hot tub, never use the sauna (came with the house), never use the in-wall heater or the 3rd dryer (don't even have a dryer where the 3rd 240v outlet is).

Anyways, is there a simple "rule of thumb' where I can look at our 2 panels and determine if I actually need more power to the home to be safe?

Thanks!

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[jtshaw]

When you say you "took out the hot tub" do you mean you removed it, but the circuit is still there? Our hot tub is a 60amp circuit which would be perfect for an EV.

Nobody can tell you if you need an updated service without knowing what the service coming in is and knowing what all is connected to it.

 

[NashvilleR1S]

If you arent using some of those outlets anymore you could have them removed and use those breakers for your charger.

 

[Sdvictor]

Well, they can run a load assessment to determine if you need more. Typically even 3000 sqft homes don't need more than 200A or 225A even with everything you're listing. For example, I don't use more than 100A on my panel at any given time with most things running at the same time. I know that since I have some smart current sensors (Sense) .

But as others have mentioned, It's hard to tell unless you describe what your load center is capable of

If you're If you're maxing out the slots, then you're a bit SOL and just need a new larger panel (I went to a commercial 60 slot), subpanel or split panel.

 

[SANZC02]

When you say you "took out the hot tub" do you mean you remove it, but the circuit is still there? Our hot tub is a 60amp circuit which would be perfect for an EV.

Nobody can tell you if you need an updated service without knowing what the service coming in is and knowing what all is connected to it.

I second both of these.

Might be worth having a second electrician come out and look at it. They would know more about the setup than anyone on this forum. If there are circuit not being used and no plans to use them, make sure to tell the electrician, they should be able to take those out and repurpose the slots.

The size of your service comes into play as well, I had to upgrade from a 100 amp panel to a 200 amp panel when I added solar. That also gave me more room for a 60 amp circuit.

 

[COdogman]

Use the hot tub breaker for your EVSE.

 

[jjswan33]

I met with an electrician at our house today. He said we're maxed out on the current panel. I trust him, but would like to verify that. For the record, we do have a lot of heavy load appliances in our house (most not used) - 3 dryers, 1 in-wall heater, a hot tub, a sauna. We took out the hot tub, never use the sauna (came with the house), never use the in-wall heater or the 3rd dryer (don't even have a dryer where the 3rd 240v outlet is).

Anyways, is there a simple "rule of thumb' where I can look at our 2 panels and determine if I actually need more power to the home to be safe?

Thanks!

Take a picture of your breaker panel. That can tell you a lot. If you are comfortable doing so pull the cover off it will be even better.

The meter outside may also show information about your service size, sometimes there is even a secondary main breaker switch by the meter

 

[EarlyAdptr]

Thanks for all your great responses! So valuable!! I'm starting to see a lot of opportunity without having to upgrade the service to the house. Here's a picture showing the how the main and sub panels used today. Any way for me to determine how much amperage coming into the home?

Based on this, I'm going to have a conversation with my wife about disabling the sauna which we have NEVER used (came with the house). That would be enough to cover us (80 amps).

Other thoughts?

 

[crashmtb]

Thanks for all your great responses! So valuable!! I'm starting to see a lot of opportunity without having to upgrade the service to the house. Here's a picture showing the how the main and sub panels used today. Any way for me to determine how much amperage coming into the home?

Based on this, I'm going to have a conversation with my wife about disabling the sauna which we have NEVER used (came with the house). That would be enough to cover us (80 amps).

Other thoughts?

if I was you I’d for sure just have the sauna disconnected and then use that capacity for the rivian’s charger.

The primary breaker for the whole house will be a good indicator of how much power you have. Usually at the top of or beside your main panel.

 

[NorthernOak]

Your main breaker should tell you it's max amperage. Most homes in US are either 100, 150, or 200 amp service. My guess just looking at your spreadsheet is that you have a 200 amp service. Also most people will want to be charging their vehicle at night when your home's electrical needs are winding down and also when electricity is cheapest from your provider. Looking at your spreadsheet you have plenty of room on that subpanel to add an electric car charger to charge in the evenings/overnight.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

All great points. Thanks @crashmtb and @NorthernOak !!

I checked the top breaker and it's 200 amps total to the panel / house.

Is there a 'rule of thumb' for the ratio between the sum of all the individual breakers versus what the whole dwelling / breaker is rated versus (in my case 1085 / 200 or 5.5 to 1)?

Also, the electrician I spoke with said there's going to be a "land grab" on higher amperages: basically the local utility's "system" or grid (Puget Sound Energy) can't support everyone upgrading the service into their homes. He said right now roughly 85% to 90% of requests for upgrades are getting approved, but 5-7 years down the road, he expects that to drop off precipitously. We're on a cul-de-sac with one transformer. He thinks only ONE home will be able to increase service into their house.

Should we consider doing that now (~$5k) or just using the current setup with the 200 amp panel?

Thanks again everyone - super helpful!!

 

[NorthernOak]

In my opinion looking at your panel spreadsheet and knowing you don't use the 3rd dryer, took out the hot tub, willing to remove the sauna, and don't use the extra heater I think 200 amp service is enough for your home. Even with 2 electric cars, as long as you're charging at night the majority of your other electric appliances and use will be minimal. That being said I don't know your electric future plans so maybe you do want to upgrade. Maybe you add back the sauna and hot tub one day or maybe you add more electric heat in your home.

My house has a 200 amp service and I'm charging a Model 3 and now the the Rivian. Not done yet with my 2nd charger install but when its done they will power share a 60amp circuit. I didn't initially plan for doing a power sharing setup but I installed an electric heater in my garage this past fall so now 2 car chargers and the electric heat will be too much for my garage 100amp subpanel. I run our electric dryer and dishwasher at night too to save on energy costs. Weekends for me also count as off peak rates so that saves me money too when/if we run more stuff on the weekends.

 

[Gshenderson]

I’ve got a similar issue, albeit much smaller panel and existing power usage. I have 100 amp service, and my main panel is maxed out from a slot standpoint except for two single slots that aren’t adjacent. So to add a 240v breaker, I’d need to rearrange everything which I’m not too keen on doing.

The good news is that I have a 240v 50amp breaker for a hot tub, and no hot tub. So my plan is to disconnect the hot tub circuit wires from that beaker and instead plug in the new wire that I will run to the EVSE that I install in my garage. I’m on the fence still about whether to replace the breaker with a 60amp, but likely will.

I’ll label and cap off the the hot tub wires at the panel, as well as at the outlet on my deck so that in the future anyone who looks at it will understand it’s existing wires for the hot tub but they’ve been disconnected. I’d strongly suggest labeling both ends of any wire you decide to disconnect.

 

[lostpacket]

I agree with the others here that your 200A service is probably fine @EarlyAdptr and those hot tub breakers should be fine.

I don't think you need to add up your breakers to judge panel size. But some type of continuous load calculation should be done.

As a little off topic side note: Personally I am looking to upgrade to a Span panel and adding solar.


Anyways these videos may help:

 

[EarlyAdptr]

Well, I found the 4th dryer plug in our house -and my wife and I agree there is NO way anyone is going to want to use that. So I think, in the near term we can cannibalize that circuit and use it for a dedicated EV charging device.

I'm still thinking of starting out with a NEMA 14-50 plug on a 50 amp circuit (with wire gauge for a 60 amp circuit in case we want to upgrade down the road). But we have more than enough with the 60 amp Dryer circuit we're going to decommission.

Thanks everyone!!!!

PS One additional point a friend of mine made, a sizable draw in any home is lighting. As we all move to LED lighting - that draw decreases substantially. So the total draw on the panel is less than when it was originally put in.

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