RivianTrackr: "Stop Buying EVs for the Trip You Take Twice a Year"

[macb00kemdanno]

Non-stop 75MPH doesn't really sound like real world to me...

You obviously don’t live in fly over country….or any western state. It’s extremely common…usually 80 mph for hours at a time.

Even in NC. Our trip to the beach is 70 mph posted speed limit most of the way... roughly an hour and 50 minutes of a 2:15 minute ride (Garner, NC to Holden Beach, NC). It's 70 mph from I-40 through I-140, with the cruise control set to 80 mph. Then it's 55-60 mph for another 15 minutes and 45 mph for the last 10 minutes.

Even with the slower speeds towards the end, I average 71 mph for the entire trip.

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[Owner]

Cost savings is one part, maintenance is another. All I’ve done is add washer fluid and change tires for the last 8 years and never had a breakdown. Lots less to go wrong on an EV.

In the 150,000 miles and 13 1/2 years with the Tesla Model S I never changed the brakes.

 

[Dennisis]

More range is great but there are always trade offs and currently options are limited. If you like the R2 buy it - don’t rule it out until you’re sure you understand EVs in general and are convinced it won’t work for you. There’s a lot more to ownership than is captured on all the clickbait videos and most of it is great. This is what it’s like living with new technology but it shouldn’t be scary, many have been doing it for years. Do the research first - knowledge is power. Few EV owners would ever go back to ICE.

 

[mkg3]

When we step back and think about what the ultimate objective is, talking about range and charging speed, is just how long of time does it take to get from A to B.

When the range is greater, we make less stops for any given long distance. The charging time is reduced if we have 800V > 400V architecture and the charging terminal’s provider capability.

The local traffic pattern and the time of the day for departure and arrival can impact the travel time as much as, if not more than a charging stop time.

So its a combination of range, battery size, cell energy density (chemistry for now and SSB in the future), and the charging speed is what ultimately determines how well any vehicle fits one’s need/expectation. None of these care if the vehicle is aerodynamic or weight of the vehicle; rather, how fast one drives determine how much ground one can cover in any given time.

Based on this combination, any one variable can affect the outcome, such as driving slower to increase the range but taking longer to get there; however, one might end up in the rush hour traffic due to later arrival time (or maybe miss it because its later still).

The implication is just how important one’s driving style, typical road trip distance traveled per day, and the need for breaks during the day of driving. For myself, I like to get from A to B in shortest possible time most of the time. Its not to say I don’t want to stop and smell the flowers or see sights. There are those too but in all cases, we typically have a reservation at the destination location that we are trying to get to and not just get there and go to sleep.

Just like to cover 500 miles in 7 hours, including the charging time....

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I personally like the idea of an EV sports car with removal battery modules.

If you're just commuting to work and back then remove most of them.

If you're going on a road trip then put them all in.

That way I can have fun with a fairly light vehicle most of the time with the range I'd want for a road trip. Plus you can use the modules to power your house when you're not using them for your car.

The primary drawback is the sore muscles from having to do back breaking work just to go on a road trip.

 

[Dennisis]

Just like to cover 500 miles in 7 hours, including the charging time....

Seriously? Just using an ICE from my house in Tucson to Santa Monica is 507 miles, just over 8 hours according to Google Maps. How did you arrive at your desired numbers exactly?

 

[kanefsky]

I never worried about it in my Tundra or other ICE vehicles, and don't think about it in my EV either. If someone can't manage to avoid running completely out of fuel/energy over the course of 200-300 something miles, they've got problems bigger than their vehicle.

I think you underestimate the reluctance of many people to make extra unecessary stops on a road trip. There's a real psychological predisposition to keep moving towards your goal and not having to stop and start.

When I drove ICE cars I remember placing a big value on the ability to do a straight shot from SF to LA without having to stop for gas. I did the trip nonstop a number of times, and even when I had to stop for some other reason it wouldn't be at a gas station. I could use rest stops for bathroom breaks, for example, which are much closer to the freeway and also a much better place to stretch your legs or sit in the car and eat a snack.

People were definitely thinking about range and efficiency long before EVs. The phrase "your mileage may vary" originated from the EPA for ICE cars and then became so well known that it turned into a generic saying that applied to any situation where you might not get the expected result

 

[blipit]

You obviously don’t live in fly over country….or any western state. It’s extremely common…usually 80 mph for hours at a time.

You just have to realize a lot people live in their little bubbles. Their world is what they see immediately around them. Driving on highways with 75mph speed limits for hours on end is foreign to them.

 

[windshieldfarmer]

Pretty simple to see that I live in Washington, which I believe is considered a "western state"...

Then why would you make such an uninformed statement?

 

[mkg3]

Seriously? Just using an ICE from my house in Tucson to Santa Monica is 507 miles, just over 8 hours according to Google Maps. How did you arrive at your desired numbers exactly?

Just average little over 71 mph....

 

[Dennisis]

Just average little over 71 mph....

Plus charging time (which you want to include in those 7 hours) so never drive at lower than highway speeds with little to no traffic except to get to one charge stop and back up to speed. Good luck…..

 

[mkg3]

I personally like the idea of an EV sports car with removal battery modules.

If you're just commuting to work and back then remove most of them.

If you're going on a road trip then put them all in.

That way I can have fun with a fairly light vehicle most of the time with the range I'd want for a road trip. Plus you can use the modules to power your house when you're not using them for your car.

The primary drawback is the sore muscles from having to do back breaking work just to go on a road trip.

The original Tesla Roadster was based on Lotus Elise chassis and weighed just under 2,900 lbs with the range of about 240 miles. So no need to have removable battery modules.

If you do the math, you'll find that even at the optimistic 300Wh/kg energy density, a 3kWh cells alone would weigh 10 kg or roughly 22 lbs. Since 3 kWh is meaningless for driving a vehicle, as a range extender, you'll need 10 kWh worth of cells which is 66 lbs, then the cells need to be packaged into module that can be removed and have cooling/heading interface and subsystem inside the module for safety. All said, each module would easily exceed 100 lbs for additional short miles. This is why no one does it. It does not make neither economical or practical sense.

 

[mkg3]

Plus charging time so never drive at lower than highway speeds with little to no traffic except to get to one charge stop and back up to speed. Good luck…..

Bing, binh bing! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

That's the whole point. I don't care about what the detailed efficiency or drag coefficient or rolling resistance. Its time that I care about.

So make an EV that can do what I can do in my ICE vehicle. Neither my R1S or Model 3 can do that but my Outback can.

In this scenario, speed limit +10 is a common practice by many., many drivers on the road trips.

 

[Dennisis]

Bing, binh bing! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

That's the whole point. I don't care about what the detailed efficiency or drag coefficient or rolling resistance. Its time that I care about.

So make an EV that can do what I can do in my ICE vehicle. Neither my R1S or Model 3 can do that but my Outback can.

In this scenario, speed limit +10 is a common practice by many., many drivers on the road trips.

Well it’s true you said you’d like to do it, can’t fault you for that. I’m sure everyone would like an EV that can pull off those highway speeds 10 over the speed limit for hour after hour with a quick gas fill up equivalent charge. Someday I’m sure but not today.

 

[Platinumstorm]

And have you owned an EV yet? Because thinking worst case scenarios and actually dealing with them are different. If stuck on the highway you’ll use little charge so that’s not an issue, and aside from worst case you have easy access to chargers - don’t overthink it.

i doubt it will take that long, I’ve been doing this for 8 years. And will be through Durango from Tucson to Denver again the end of Sep, have been all over the state many times. And check out Slow Grooving BBQ in Marble before they close for the season, they are the absolute best and a beautiful trip .

No. But would you be comfortable with a 20 mile buffer over 4 hours in -5 to 15 degree weather?

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