Rivian now selling pollution indulgences

[AbhorViolence]

We all want to drive electric cuz it’s a better driving experience…the planet isn’t going to be saved. It’s a nice thought but…even moving 100% personal transport to electric…not gonna have much of an effect…maybe 15% with current models I’ve seen…You need shipping and airline travel and big rig over the road shipping to go electric… and oil refineries to just stop to really do anything about global warming. It’s sad…

We'll never be serious about dealing with the climate crisis until we end animal agriculture.

It's the single biggest impact globally and yet rarely even gets mentioned.

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[AbhorViolence]

The credit scheme does not stop the US spending what it wants on the military - it is called deficit spending and a large reason why we now have annual trillion dollar deficits.

I was about to say the same thing. And we now spend a trillion dollars a year on the military industrial complex.

 

[Mister Person]

We'll never be serious about dealing with the climate crisis until we end animal agriculture.

It's the single biggest impact globally and yet rarely even gets mentioned.

Simply untrue. The EPA estimates ALL agriculture (including livestock and all crops) to account for 10% of US greenhouse emissions, and 24% of global emissions. They even state that that doesn’t account for carbon sequestration that pasture land provides, so the net is even less. Of that 10% US number, only ⅓ of it accounts for livestock.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

 

[Mister Person]

Money spent = human activity = environmental impact.

A $32k Camry is better For the environment than a $100k Tesla Model S.

 

[Zoidz]

Money spent = human activity = environmental impact.

A $32k Camry is better For the environment than a $100k Tesla Model S.

Works both ways - example:
Premium money spent on installing geothermal home heating (30%-50% more) has a positive environmental impact over an oil furnace.

 

[Zoidz]

We'll never be serious about dealing with the climate crisis until we end animal agriculture.

It's the single biggest impact globally and yet rarely even gets mentioned.

A simple Google search indicates the EPA says otherwise. The 24% shown includes many factors beyond animal agriculture.

 

[Trandall]

Works both ways - example:
Premium money spent on installing geothermal home heating (30%-50% more) has a positive environmental impact over an oil furnace.

I think you and @Mister Person are both right. If you look at the total life cycle cost of a product the cheaper total life cycle cost will have less environmental impact, I'm sure there are exceptions.

In my mind driving around a new 7000#+, 800HP+ EV is not particularly "green" so since I drive one I tend not to judge others carbon footprint.

 

[fhteagle]

until we end animal agriculture.

... until we end Confined Animal Feeding Operations.

There, fixed it for you.

Healthy grass pasture is a carbon sink, and if managed well can be a massive one at that. It's incredibly hard to keep grasslands in that carbon sinking state without proper cycling of ruminants. There is research indicating that grass produces radicals that attack and break down CH4 in the atmosphere, potentially two orders of magnitude more than the methane produced by the ruminants supported by that amount of grass.

Burn forest to till and kill ground to produce corn and soy to nearly poison animals while fattening them as rapidly as possible, and mismanage their dung is not the only way to produce meat...........

 

[AbhorViolence]

... until we end Confined Animal Feeding Operations.

There, fixed it for you.

Healthy grass pasture is a carbon sink, and if managed well can be a massive one at that. It's incredibly hard to keep grasslands in that carbon sinking state without proper cycling of ruminants. There is research indicating that grass produces radicals that attack and break down CH4 in the atmosphere, potentially two orders of magnitude more than the methane produced by the ruminants supported by that amount of grass.

Burn forest to till and kill ground to produce corn and soy to nearly poison animals while fattening them as rapidly as possible, and mismanage their dung is not the only way to produce meat...........

They're called Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations. (CAFOs).

I'm talking about reality, not a fantasy world. We cut down rain forests for pasture land. And "grass fed" cows still produce methane. Nevermind that virtually nobody actually consumes grass fed. "Grass fed beef" is promoted by industry as propaganda, a distraction from the big picture, to keep people consuming cows. (96% in the US is not grass fed, and the USDA requires only 50% grass for it to be labeled "grass fed".)

 

[AbhorViolence]

Simply untrue. The EPA estimates ALL agriculture (including livestock and all crops) to account for 10% of US greenhouse emissions, and 24% of global emissions. They even state that that doesn’t account for carbon sequestration that pasture land provides, so the net is even less. Of that 10% US number, only ⅓ of it accounts for livestock.

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

There have been reports that it's number 1 globally, others that it's #2. (And the EPA is largely captured by industry so not an independent source.) Whether it's 1 or 2, point is it is rarely even discussed compared to transportation and fossil fuels generally, despite being just as important if not more so.

This article has some general info:
https://sentientmedia.org/does-animal-agriculture-contribute-to-climate-change/

 

[AbhorViolence]

A simple Google search indicates the EPA says otherwise. The 24% shown includes many factors beyond animal agriculture.

The EPA, largely captured by industry, is not a reliable source for info on this. They don't even bother to break down that 24% (animal ag is by far the biggest chunk of it, much larger than some other separate categories they did include).

It may be #1 or #2 globally. Point is it's rarely even mentioned (as your EPA chart actually shows).

Here's a recent study:
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/01/new-model-explores-link-animal-agriculture-climate-change/

 

[Zoidz]

The EPA, largely captured by industry, is not a reliable source for info on this. They don't even bother to break down that 24% (animal ag is by far the biggest chunk of it, much larger than some other separate categories they did include).

It may be #1 or #2 globally. Point is it's rarely even mentioned (as your EPA chart actually shows).

Here's a recent study:
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/01/new-model-explores-link-animal-agriculture-climate-change/

You say that the EPA is not a reliable source. I say that the authors of the study are not an unbiased reliable source. Did you read this in the article?

"Brown is also the founder and CEO of Impossible Foods, a company developing alternatives to animals in food production. Eisen is an advisor to the company. Both Brown and Eisen stand to benefit financially from the reduction of animal agriculture."

I'm not denying the possible impact, etc. but this study has it's own agenda to promote, as well as so many others. Also, none of the studies I have seen address the fact that moving from a meat diet to a plant diet partially or completely shifts the flatulent emissions from livestock to humans. What is the increase in human farts while reducing livestock farts?

 

[AbhorViolence]

You say that the EPA is not a reliable source. I say that the authors of the study are not an unbiased reliable source. Did you read this in the article?

"Brown is also the founder and CEO of Impossible Foods, a company developing alternatives to animals in food production. Eisen is an advisor to the company. Both Brown and Eisen stand to benefit financially from the reduction of animal agriculture."

I'm not denying the possible impact, etc. but this study has it's own agenda to promote, as well as so many others. Also, none of the studies I have seen address the fact that moving from a meat diet to a plant diet partially or completely shifts the flatulent emissions from livestock to humans. What is the increase in human farts while reducing livestock farts?

You're right about the difficulty finding unbiased sources.

The farts argument is specious. It's mainly cow burps that we have to worry about.

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Artic...hat-s-worse-for-the-planet-cow-or-human-farts

 

[Zoidz]

You're right about the difficulty finding unbiased sources.

The farts argument is specious. It's mainly cow burps that we have to worry about.

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Artic...hat-s-worse-for-the-planet-cow-or-human-farts

Another study that "solves" the cow burp problem. We toured a a research park in Hawaii earlier this year where they produce this product.

 

[Mister Person]

I’ll give up my combustion engine. No way I’m giving up beef. Mostly because I believe that plant based diets are a disaster for human health.

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