UAW is coming after Rivian

[Fireguy2020]

Wow...guess shouldnt be shocked but the rancor and divisivness has gripped our country--being united, union, associations, churches, you have it, used to be so American--but we have become selfish and self-centeted society. The planet is dying or at least changing to be less inhabitable, that is the biggest reason I bought my Rivian, to contribute some small measure, and performance was the bonus that hopefully will help to sell others. On the topic-Unions have a place and are regulated by thier members, laws and yes market forces--I see them demonized, often by those who have little to no first hand experiences and from outdated or flawed perceptions, IMHO.

Sponsored

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Wow...guess shouldnt be shocked but the rancor and divisivness has gripped our country--being united, union, associations, churches, you have it, used to be so American--but we have become selfish and self-centeted society. The planet is dying or at least changing to be less inhabitable, that is the biggest reason I bought my Rivian, to contribute some small measure, and performance was the bonus that hopefully will help to sell others. On the topic-Unions have a place and are regulated by thier members, laws and yes market forces--I see them demonized, often by those who have little to no first hand experiences and from outdated or flawed perceptions, IMHO.

I don't know about others, but my personal disregard for Unions has to do with the idea of using physical intimidation (or assault) to prevent someone who is willing to do your job (while you refuse) from doing so. You may chose to accept that physical intimidation has a place in workplace negotiations, but I certainly do not.

 

[mkhuffman]

Wow...guess shouldnt be shocked but the rancor and divisivness has gripped our country--being united, union, associations, churches, you have it, used to be so American--but we have become selfish and self-centeted society. The planet is dying or at least changing to be less inhabitable, that is the biggest reason I bought my Rivian, to contribute some small measure, and performance was the bonus that hopefully will help to sell others. On the topic-Unions have a place and are regulated by thier members, laws and yes market forces--I see them demonized, often by those who have little to no first hand experiences and from outdated or flawed perceptions, IMHO.

I don't believe the planet is dying or becoming less inhabitable. A large percentage of scientists and the public agree. But I guess if we go too far down this path, it will be considered too political and the Admins will lock the thread. So we should just agree to disagree about it.

My problem with unions is not that they exist, it is they are often not voluntary. In Right to Work states, unions really struggle. And that is because they don't add the value they claim they add, and employees know it. I believe in freedom, and people should be free to create a union, and other people should be free to say they don't want to have anything to do with it. Until that happens, I will never support unions, in any industry.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Wow...guess shouldnt be shocked but the rancor and divisivness has gripped our country--being united, union, associations, churches, you have it, used to be so American--but we have become selfish and self-centeted society. The planet is dying or at least changing to be less inhabitable, that is the biggest reason I bought my Rivian, to contribute some small measure, and performance was the bonus that hopefully will help to sell others. On the topic-Unions have a place and are regulated by thier members, laws and yes market forces--I see them demonized, often by those who have little to no first hand experiences and from outdated or flawed perceptions, IMHO.

So you support unions because they mean united? Funny how you say unions should be regulated by market forces but in every right to work state unions like the UAW don't exist. All right to work does is give people a choice to join a union and in every right to work state there is no UAW presence. Do you suppose that's a coincidence or do the unions not provide the value they claim to their workers.

This idea that naming something good automatically makes it so needs to die. You can't take the Klan and rename them the good guy club to make what they do okay and you can't assume because union means together than UAW actually cares about their members and not their own cause.

I don't believe the planet is dying or becoming less inhabitable. A large percentage of scientists and the public agree. But I guess if we go too far down this path, it will be considered too political and the Admins will lock the thread. So we should just agree to disagree about it.

My problem with unions is not that they exist, it is they are often not voluntary. In Right to Work states, unions really struggle. And that is because they don't add the value they claim they add, and employees know it. I believe in freedom, and people should be free to create a union, and other people should be free to say they don't want to have anything to do with it. Until that happens, I will never support unions, in any industry.

Pretty much 100% this. If unions were as great as claimed right to work would be meaningless as it doesn't at all prohibit people from joining unions, it just gives them the choice not to and it doesn't let Union officials decide who can and cannot work based on who pays their ransom.

 

[Fireguy2020]

Sry...stated my opinion--didnt mean rattle you guys . There is good and bad as with anything and nothing perfect, but (obviously) a place for Unions, and a strong middle-class assiciated with thier ideals.

Many (mostly Southern) so called RTW states do have Unions. RTW--just says workers can get the same benefits negotiated bu the union without paying any dues, etc, so may greatly diminish incentive to belong and membership, is affected--alas not attempting to break granite here just adding to robust and unendable debate...later !

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Sry...stated my opinion--didnt mean rattle you guys . There is good and bad as with anything and nothing perfect, but (obviously) a place for Unions, and a strong middle-class assiciated with thier ideals.

Many (mostly Southern) so called RTW states do have Unions. RTW--just says workers can get the same benefits negotiated bu the union without paying any dues, etc, so may greatly diminish incentive to belong and membership, is affected--alas not attempting to break granite here just adding to robust and unendable debate...later !

Simple disagreement with you doesn't mean you rattled me or anyone else. My emotional state is unaffected; I am having a simple discussion in which I believe you to be wrong. I'm afraid I disagree with your premise that there is a place for unions, especially non trade unions. I don't think you've established how unions are responsible for maintaining the middle class.

If the union is so good, why wouldn't people want to pay dues in RTW states? Right to work allows people to choose whether or not they wish to belong to a union. Your assertion is that people would choose not to because they get all the union benefits anyway. Do you have any proof of this as the universal reason why someone would prefer not to join a union?

I noticed how your reason for people not joining infers positivity about the union and negativity about those who didn't join. However, where you lost me was proving this assertion true. After all, there are many valid reasons not to want to belong to a union. Perhaps the people who refuse to join are sick of seeing lazy and entitled people continue to get pay raises on the backs of the few who work hard and don't feel it's fair to make the same amount they do.

I know from a personal standpoint as someone who was a union member for many years, I often had these feelings when the drunks and lazy ass hall surfers would get put on jobs, and sit there doing little to nothing for weeks until they got recycled back to the hall. Guys that made the same amount I did for showing up to work with "orange juice," which was basically clear and reeking of vodka. The best part is when both of you are laid off because of an economic slowdown; he gets back to work before you if he was laid off longer.

I'm not sure about you, but that's a valid reason to dislike unions that paints the union poorly instead of the person opposing it. So, I know your assertion isn't universally true, and you probably should do a little better than presume that for everyone else. If you genuinely want to have an honest discussion as you claim to, try sticking to facts instead of unsupported suppositions.

 

[Stickboy46]

As someone that has worked in both types of jobs over the last 20 years .. my general thought on them is they have some benefit but in general the biggest benefit goes to the lowest performers. They raise the floor on items like pay but also cap the top. They greatly disincentive people from going above and beyond. There is no reason to do more than asked if the person that does the bare minimum (or less) is guaranteed to get the same or close to the same as you. When you start guaranteeing pay bumps irrelevant of outside factors, why should i try to overachieve? When there are minimal to no consequences to doing the bare minimum, why should I do any more? Then add in things like seniority as a deciding factor for promotions and layoffs and you start to breed complacency.

 

[SANZC02]

Interesting article about warn notice of huge layoffs for Stellantis.

Sponsored