Rivian brings wrapped R1T & EDV to the DEF CON hacker convention

[Steve A.]

You didn't have to purchase it. That was YOUR CHOICE...

And I guarantee I purchased mine before you did, and I had access to it well before I paid a dime to Rivian other than the FULLY REFUNDABLE deposit.

Please provide the link to the sample sales agreement in the wayback machine in March 2021 when I put down my $1K deposit or even in June 2023 when I purchased it because I don't see it and the burden of proof is on you. I'll be more than happy to say you were right, and I missed it.

And you don't have sign those home closing documents either when you're in the middle of signing them after MONTHS of setting up the transaction. SMH

Yes. I purchased it anyway, but if I knew when placing my $1K deposit that I could not opt out of spyware, I would have definitely at a minimum had second thoughts about it, but I'm glad I got the 20% pre-order discount ($81.5K after EV tax rebate) because I DEFINITELY wouldn't be spending $120K+ on a quad daily driver now.

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[COdogman]

The burden of proof is on YOU. Please provide the URL from the wayback machine in March 2021 when I placed my $1K preorder deposit because I do not see a purchase agreement, *data privacy* statement, nor *data collection* mentioned.

And here's the wayback machine in June 2023 when I purchased it.

Provide the links, and I'll be more than happy to admit you were right; however, it doesn't change the fact that I was blindsided by the lack of opting out for spyware at time of signing the purchase agreement.

I’m not retroactively doing your homework for you. YOU have already been proven to not know you can opt out of data collection, so YOU have established a pattern of not putting in the effort to research the topics you claim are so important to you. I found all those documents and you could have done the same thing.

Amazing how it’s everyone’s fault but yours that you purchased a “spy truck”

 

[Steve A.]

I’m not retroactively doing your homework for you. YOU have already been proven to not know you can opt out of data collection, so YOU have established a pattern of not putting in the effort to research the topics you claim are so important to you. I found all those documents and you could have done the same thing.

Amazing how it’s everyone’s fault but yours that you purchased a “spy truck”

Of course you won't. Feel free to provide the links to the documents in the wayback machine where you found them before.

I did plenty of research but when the data was NON-EXISTENT that's not on the researcher.

PROVE IT.

 

[mikehmb]

FWIW, "we" had extensive debates with the Big 3 regarding data ownership and stewardship, in the context of both security and privacy, and they were all very much in the camp of "if the car generates data, it belongs to the OEM."

Some take it to a further extreme than others.

Rivian actually does a commendable job allowing for opt-out. It will, by definition, limit capabilities, should you choose to limit the data they can see.

("we" were the security community, in partnership with our privacy friends)

 

[Steve A.]

FWIW, "we" had extensive debates with the Big 3 regarding data ownership and stewardship, in the context of both security and privacy, and they were all very much in the camp of "if the car generates data, it belongs to the OEM."

Some take it to a further extreme than others.

Rivian actually does a commendable job allowing for opt-out. It will, by definition, limit capabilities, should you choose to limit the data they can see.

("we" were the security community, in partnership with our privacy friends)

Having to sign a purchase agreement that does NOT allow you to opt out is NOT *commendable* when it could just as easily allow it.

Again, shame on the politicians who do not champion consumer protection laws.

Then again, as long as the manufacturers and their lobbyists are in their pockets, consumer protection is a pipe dream.

 

[COdogman]

Of course you won't. Feel free to provide the links to the documents in the wayback machine where you found them before.

I did plenty of research but when the data was NON-EXISTENT that's not on the researcher.

PROVE IT.

Yeah, you “did plenty of research” but somehow are still claiming you can’t opt out of data collection.

I don’t need to prove anything to you. I easily found all those documents and my purchase timeline was literally the exact same as yours. Ordered in 2021 and took delivery in June 2023. Stop making excuses and look in the mirror. YOU made the choice to purchase your truck. No one forced you to do it.

 

[Steve A.]

Yeah, you “did plenty of research” but somehow are still claiming you can’t opt out of data collection.

I don’t need to prove anything to you. I easily found all those documents and my purchase timeline was literally the exact same as yours. Ordered in 2021 and took delivery in June 2023. Stop making excuses and look in the mirror. YOU made the choice to purchase your truck. No one forced you to do it.

What about you couldn't *opt out at purchase agreement signing* don't you understand. That's TOO LATE. The damage is already done.

And yes, just because you CLAIM you read all the documents beforehand does NOT PROVE IT esp. when I gave you the links to the Rivian sites in the wayback machine. All you have to do is click on the links, navigate to those documents, and PROVE IT because I do not see them on those days which proves otherwise.

 

[godfodder0901]

What about you couldn't *opt out at purchase agreement signing* don't you understand. That's TOO LATE. The damage is already done.

And yes, just because you CLAIM you read all the documents beforehand does NOT PROVE IT esp. when I gave you the links to the Rivian sites in the wayback machine. All you have to do is click on the links, navigate to those documents, and PROVE IT because I do not see them on those days which proves otherwise.

Well, I can't see the sun at night so it doesn't exist. Thats proof....

 

[Steve A.]

Well, I can't see the sun at night so it doesn't exist. Thats proof....

If the documents existed on the rivian.com site for me to read them like you said, then they are in the wayback machine. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that they are they but I don't see them. The ball's in your court. If not, then I'm going to stick w/ you are not remembering correctly because for 27+ months I was reading EVERYTHING I could find about Rivian and ESPECIALLY about my future purchase.

 

[godfodder0901]

If the documents existed on the rivian.com site for me to read them like you said, then they are in the wayback machine. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that they are they but I don't see them. The ball's in your court. If not, then I'm going to stick w/ you are not remembering correctly because for 27+ months I was reading EVERYTHING I could find about Rivian and ESPECIALLY about my future purchase.

I just went through my old emails and I was sent these documents Feb of 2022, a full 3 weeks prior to signing anything. Just because the docs weren't on the internet doesn't mean they weren't available.

 

[godfodder0901]

If the documents existed on the rivian.com site for me to read them like you said, then they are in the wayback machine. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt that they are they but I don't see them. The ball's in your court. If not, then I'm going to stick w/ you are not remembering correctly because for 27+ months I was reading EVERYTHING I could find about Rivian and ESPECIALLY about my future purchase.

Oh, and this is from October... Of 2021...

https://web.archive.org/web/20211025174014/Rivian.com/legal/privacy

Took literally 12 seconds to find.

 

[Steve A.]

I just went through my old emails and I was sent these documents Feb of 2022, a full 3 weeks prior to signing anything. Just because the docs weren't on the internet doesn't mean they weren't available.

So, we all know that the purchase process was NOT the same for everyone. I just reviewed ALL my emails prior o purchase and NONE contained any attachments until AFTER I signed the purchase agreement. YOUR purchase process may have been different for a number of reasons including your state laws or if you financed it through Rivian. I did NOT finance it through Rivian.

Further, my entire purchase process took 8 days from the time I received the initial Rivian email until I had to FedEx the final payment and sign the purchase agreement and then I took delivery 8 days after that.

So, unless the purchase agreement clauses were provided on rivian.com PRIOR to me signing the purchase agreement, then it makes a HUGE difference. Again, please provide links proving me wrong; otherwise, I stand by every statement which doesn't mean you are a liar, since again, there was NOT a one-size-fits-all purchase process.

 

[godfodder0901]

So, we all know that the purchase process was NOT the same for everyone. I just reviewed ALL my emails prior o purchase and NONE contained any attachments until AFTER I signed the purchase agreement. YOUR purchase process may have been different for a number of reasons including your state laws or if you financed it through Rivian. I did NOT finance it through Rivian.

Further, my entire purchase process took 8 days from the time I received the initial Rivian email until I had to FedEx the final payment and sign the purchase agreement and then I took delivery 8 days after that.

So, unless the purchase agreement clauses were provided on rivian.com PRIOR to me signing the purchase agreement, then it makes a HUGE difference. Again, please provide links proving me wrong; otherwise, I stand by every statement which doesn't mean you are a liar, since again, there was NOT a one-size-fits-all purchase process.

Look

 

[Steve A.]

Oh, and this is from October... Of 2021...

https://web.archive.org/web/20211025174014/Rivian.com/legal/privacy

Took literally 12 seconds to find.

Ah...ha! Fair enough. So, looks like they 1st published the privacy notice in 9/21 which was AFTER my 3/21 pre-order deposit, but it was at least there for my 6/23 purchase.

That said, I guess since this was a first for me, I would have still been surprised that I couldn't opt out of it. Would I have cancelled the purchase though? Maybe. Maybe not, since Rivian was still the only EV truck option.

 

[COdogman]

What about you couldn't *opt out at purchase agreement signing* don't you understand. That's TOO LATE. The damage is already done.

And yes, just because you CLAIM you read all the documents beforehand does NOT PROVE IT esp. when I gave you the links to the Rivian sites in the wayback machine. All you have to do is click on the links, navigate to those documents, and PROVE IT because I do not see them on those days which proves otherwise.

The pre-order agreement was non-binding, which is pretty obvious, so you could have gotten your deposit back at any time before purchase. They changed it later to meet the requirements of the tax credit, but the 2021 version was very simple.

I already showed you that you CAN opt out after purchase. Why else would they be explaining to you that you will lose other features tied to connectivity?

Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?
Vehicle connectivity is a core feature of Rivian vehicles. If you choose to disable all vehicle connectivity, it will prevent data from leaving the vehicle, but it will also limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle (e.g., navigation, lane keeping assistance, and over-the-air updates, which provide new features, better performance, safety enhancements, and bug fixes).

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