Rivian, offer Service Manuals to consumers!

[kallisti5]

I absolutely love my Rivian R1T, and love the company. One thing has been bugging me though.

Rivian as a company is distant, nearly combative on right to repair. It feels like such a weird position
for them to take while consumer focused in pretty much every other aspect.

Here's my journey trying to get more information on service manuals / tools from Rivian for my just out of warranty R1T:

1. Search around on website. Find I have to email [email protected].
2. Email them requesting. A ticket opens on a rivian jira instance @ Atlassian.
3. Rivian responds that owners have to go to service center when I ask for service manual access.
4. Email back confirming I am a consumer and am asking what is involved to get service information and parts for my vehicle.
5. They convey that generally only 3rd party shops get access. Request I fill out a 3rd party shop focused form with my business name. (even as an individual)
6. They send me a link to a private shopify store to order the free parts manual, or paid $2,500 / yr service manual.

I ordered the "free" parts manual to see what it was. Still waiting on them to "process" my 3rd party shop form and send the document.


As a stock holder, this all feels... legally risky. 50 states have passed *some* form of right to repair laws guaranteeing access to consumers service information and parts for the things they own.

$2,500 a year makes sense for a 3rd party shop... it doesn't make sense for a DIYer. Even GM offers consumers access to shop service information for like $99 / month per vehicle vin. (Hell! Even the ever-private Tesla offers repair information and public parts manuals)

Rivian HAS to do better here, especially as customers are starting to fall out of warranty.

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[BigSkies]

Strong agree. While other companies are taking a similar approach, I'd almost rather go back to a dealership than be locked into a vertically integrated service experience. Almost.

 

[kallisti5]

Yup. If you want a service manual as an owner, please email [email protected] and ask for it... even if you don't intend to spend $2,500 a year.

Complain about cost, ask why they don't offer the manual to owners, etc.

Squeaky wheels and sun light are the only way these kinds of things get addressed. Look at Tesla's position before Rich Rebuilds made a video about a similar experience with Tesla years ago... now they're doing pretty well.

 

[Riviot]

Rivian as a company is distant, nearly combative on right to repair. It feels like such a weird position
for them to take while consumer focused in pretty much every other aspect.

They're attempting to force service center use for out of warranty repairs to boost bottom lines. I get that from a business perspective, IF you had open timeslots and plenty of idle hands. But they don't, they have a huge backlog that spans MONTHS in some places.

To me, the problem is two-fold.
1. There is such a long backlog for service center appointments that really basic things should be made DIY to free up that $250/hr labor to do truly complicated things, like replacing drive units. Using this labor to rotate tires and change batteries is bonkers. These are things your average Joe used to be very capable of doing, and I get that a lot of folks at this price point won't do it, that's fine. Let THEM use service centers for basic stuff, charge them exorbitant prices to change wiper blades.
2. The ratio of folks willing to DIY can't possibly be great enough to impact bottom lines if you allow access. People will PAY for access, PAY for overpriced parts, PAY to give it a shot themselves. And guess what, @Rivian , if they bugger it up and come back to you for repairs, it's even MORE money for you.

The fact I could order parts from a BMW dealer for a 10 year old vehicle, ask the service desk a simple question about it, and they go above and beyond to show me under the hood and give me pointers... says a lot about Rivian not even letting you buy a battery.

I feared Rivian was going to focus on service revenue, which probably blinded me over the years to keeping the truck this long, but that's the new name of the game: break even on point of sale to charge for subscriptions and services as your primary revenue stream. See: Apple.

 

[COdogman]

They're attempting to force service center use for out of warranty repairs to boost bottom lines. I get that from a business perspective, IF you had open timeslots and plenty of idle hands. But they don't, they have a huge backlog that spans MONTHS in some places.

To me, the problem is two-fold.
1. There is such a long backlog for service center appointments that really basic things should be made DIY to free up that $250/hr labor to do truly complicated things, like replacing drive units. Using this labor to rotate tires and change batteries is bonkers. These are things your average Joe used to be very capable of doing, and I get that a lot of folks at this price point won't do it, that's fine. Let THEM use service centers for basic stuff, charge them exorbitant prices to change wiper blades.
2. The ratio of folks willing to DIY can't possibly be great enough to impact bottom lines if you allow access. People will PAY for access, PAY for overpriced parts, PAY to give it a shot themselves. And guess what, @Rivian , if they bugger it up and come back to you for repairs, it's even MORE money for you.

The fact I could order parts from a BMW dealer for a 10 year old vehicle, ask the service desk a simple question about it, and they go above and beyond to show me under the hood and give me pointers... says a lot about Rivian not even letting you buy a battery.

I feared Rivian was going to focus on service revenue, which probably blinded me over the years to keeping the truck this long, but that's the new name of the game: break even on point of sale to charge for subscriptions and services as your primary revenue stream. See: Apple.

We don’t know for sure, but I would argue they aren’t even helping themselves as a business by forcing all those DIYs to go through the service department. The overwhelming majority of their vehicles are still in warranty so it’s not making them much money sending everyone through a service center for literally everything.

To me all it’s doing is clogging up the service centers and Pissing people off.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

We don’t know for sure, but I would argue they aren’t even helping themselves as a business by forcing all those DIYs to go through the service department. The overwhelming majority of their vehicles are still in warranty so it’s not making them much money sending everyone through a service center for literally everything.

To me all it’s doing is clogging up the service centers and Pissing people off.

I think they’re being extremely cautious in managing risk. And understandably so. The law suit they just settled—though not related to service—isn’t going to make them less cautious.

But, the problem of service liability is not impossible to pre-empt with plainly stated disclosures/waivers that say: “This [owner service] guide is for educational purposes only. By taking action to repair on your own you consent to assume responsibility. If attempted DIY repairs result in damage, Rivian reserves the right to deny coverage of subsequent repairs.”

I should be able to go to a site and order replacement parts (like the uprated tie rods), just as easily as I can visit rivianservicetools.com and order a jack stand their techs use.

 

[COdogman]

I think they’re being extremely cautious in managing risk. And understandably so. The law suit they just settled—though not related to service—isn’t going to make them less cautious.

But, the problem of service liability is not impossible to pre-empt with plainly stated disclosures/waivers that say: “This [owner service] guide is for educational purposes only. By taking action to repair on your own you consent to assume responsibility. If attempted DIY repairs result in damage, Rivian reserves the right to deny coverage of subsequent repairs.”

I should be able to go to a site and order replacement parts (like the uprated tie rods), just as easily as I can visit rivianservicetools.com and order a jack stand their techs use.

Agree 100%. I‘m sure liability is also a concern, but as you said there are many ways around that. I also get the feeling they are trying to protect their intellectual property by keeping this all locked down. It’s entirely unsustainable.

 

[Count Orlok]

Are you familiar with INEOS' service manuals? Just started rolling them out to some owners... electronic access that is... wait for it... free for one year (yes it will be via subscription after 12 months).

 

[portdirect]

Are you familiar with INEOS' service manuals? Just started rolling them out to some owners... electronic access that is... wait for it... free for one year (yes it will be via subscription after 12 months).

Thank deity browsers dont have the ability to download, otherwise the poor multinational chemical companies would go out of business in an instant.

That said, if they made an electric quartermaster I’d have one in my garage as fast as I could manage.

 

[Ceejay]

Yup. If you want a service manual as an owner, please email [email protected] and ask for it... even if you don't intend to spend $2,500 a year.

Complain about cost, ask why they don't offer the manual to owners, etc.

Squeaky wheels and sun light are the only way these kinds of things get addressed. Look at Tesla's position before Rich Rebuilds made a video about a similar experience with Tesla years ago... now they're doing pretty well.

Just emailed them. I agree: we should all request and flood them with requests

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I agree with this. I'm not looking to do a ton of my own service, but not letting me do it is different from me not feeling like doing it. Knowing I could get the information I needed from folks here was reassuring. If that stuff is going to be restricted, keeping this car out of warranty will be a tough sell.

I could get access to a GM vehicle through their online portal for my own car pretty easily. When this Rivian is out of warranty perhaps it will be time to trade it in for a Vistiq.

 

[beatle]

We don’t know for sure, but I would argue they aren’t even helping themselves as a business by forcing all those DIYs to go through the service department.

Rather, they're sending DIYers to other manufacturers for their next vehicle. Well, this DIYer, at least.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

IDK about the early days, but my first car was a 1969 Buick Riviera, and I had a Chilton manual for it. Most cars had one available during those times, and repair information was readily available. This isn't a "because they are a new manufacturer thing".

 

[Nixapatfan]

Rather, they're sending DIYers to other manufacturers for their next vehicle. Well, this DIYer, at least.

This is exactly what is happening, this will be my last Rivian also. These guys don't realize it but DIYers are what makes a vehicle a cult classic driving up demand.

People don't buy Jeeps for what they offer stock, people buy them for the image the aftermarket uppfitters and DIYers built.

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