Rivian R1T charging curve test 20-80% [by TFL]

[COdogman]

I am a new member and a newer reservation holder, but from all of my research on charging (Rivian and otherwise), it sure seems like speed is more dependent on the charger than many of the other factors, with outside/ battery temp being a close second. Obviously our charging infrastructure in the US is a mess.

I saw someone mention the Hyundai Ioniq 5/ Kia EV6 as a comparison, as they are advertising 18 minutes to get from 20-80%. I saw multiple videos confirming this, but I believe all of those videos are from Europe. These vehicles also have 800v architecture to make that possible. Those vehicles are just now showing up in the US so it will be interesting to see if they get the same results here. My ex will be taking delivery of an Ioniq5 in Feb so I will be bugging her for more info after she gets her car.

So whether TFL EV did the test exactly as we would have is mostly irrelevant to me. Tommy did what any of us would do on a road trip, which is find a nearby charger, plug in and wait. We don’t know ahead of time how long it will take. Those are real world results and I thank Tommy for doing what so far no one else has done and posted it for us. The thing to remember is that this is just one data point. If over time it charges that slow at every charger in all conditions then Rivian obviously has some explaining to do. They had these trucks in testing for so long (a good thing), I Don’t see why they would lie about the charging speed. They probably discovered what many EV adopters have already, which is how inconsistent the charging networks are and the 140 miles/ 20 minutes figure is likely an average they got over time.

I’m still excited to get mine (hopefully in 2023) and I fully expect the inconsistent charging experience when I am away from home. I plan to just catch a 20 minute nap so I am fully able to focus on enjoying my new truck once it’s charged up at each stop

And thanks to everyone in this forum for all the great information. We are all (mostly) benefitting from our shared obsessions.

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[SeaGeo]

I think @kanundrum may have a good point about "Chad's" (the employee's R1) perhaps may have a different software iteration/# or may be limited in some way for data point collection vs. other true "non-employee' deliveries, since we apparently have seen some 170's and 180's. IDK.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me with that theory is why they would issue a truck to a reviewer that would have software on it that wouldn't be able to achieve their marketed specs at all. At least without telling them. But then again, it is Rivian.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Yes was just going to say that. I've been at EA charging stations where it was rated at 150kW but I was maxed out at 48kW in my R1T. You can see in the video, the max charging rate never goes past 140kW. I've only been at 150kW chargers, but I've seen up to 153kW on a 150kW charger before

Am I the only one who caught this person subtly indicating that they already have an R1T? Did I miss something that we now apparently have 2 owners on the forum?

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me with that theory is why they would issue a truck to a reviewer that would have software on it that wouldn't be able to achieve their marketed specs at all. At least without telling them. But then again, it is Rivian.

Remember it was a backup vehicle because the one they sent was hit coming off the truck. So it may have been unintentional.

 

[r1t_kev]

Am I the only one who caught this person subtly indicating that they already have an R1T? Did I miss something that we now apparently have 2 owners on the forum?

Lol I had the same thought - he may live to regret that slip up!

 

[SeaGeo]

Remember it was a backup vehicle because the one they sent was hit coming off the truck. So it may have been unintentional.

OH! I had not heard that at all. That's an interesting twist.

 

[SeaGeo]

Am I the only one who caught this person subtly indicating that they already have an R1T? Did I miss something that we now apparently have 2 owners on the forum?

Cue everyone going back and looking at their post history. lol.

 

[Dbeglor]

You're going to get better or worse charging curves depending on the charger. Some chargers are fast, some are slow. I tend to believe the R1T/S will have an average charging curve similar to what TFL experienced, for all the credit Rivian gets it really is using a now obsolete 400v system.

People expecting fast charging stops are going to be disappointed. A big, inefficient battery + a 400v system is not a combination that enables that.

This isn't a dealbreaker for me, but it is the reality. Software can't suddenly make a 400v system charge faster.

I don't think people are (should be) disappointed it isn't achieving 800v speeds, the debate should be around what conditions were present that led to results being different from what Rivian has published regarding charging, which is 140mi in 20 mins (works out to average of about 175kw over about 45% of battery). Rivian hasn't said where in the battery that can be achieved, but given this one test never got above 150kw starting at 20%, the only possibility is if it goes straight to 200kw at 0%, stays there through 20%, then drops to 150kw and follows the curve shown in this test, which would average 175kw and deliver the rate Rivian advertises if you start from 0%.

However, I personally think it's irrational for some to conclude that what Rivian has said is just "marketing", and this one test represents reality of what one should expect. There are questions to be answered regarding this one experience, but I'll still rely on the results of endless testing and the threat of securities fraud over a single "real world" test. Unless more exhaustive studies can be performed to disprove what Rivian claims and people are then convicted in the court of law, expectations for what is typical should be exactly as they say. As others have also said, it doesn't invalidate this result as something that can't happen, as it clearly can, and every charging session won't achieve optimal results.

Given it was just one test, it could be any number of things, from the vehicle, the charger to the environmental conditions. A "curve" should really be the average of dozens of sessions in various conditions to represent what an average/typical is, while also showing each unique curve to illustrate the variability around that average.

 

[AllInev]

No. Rivian needs to, at minimum, work on consistency. But I also suspect that referencing the 140 miles in 20 minute value is from like 10 to 55%.

Rivian's 140 miles in 20 minutes seems reasonable assuming their claim of 200Kw peak charging.

Here's my math.

R1T with 21" wheels (estimated range of 314 mi)
R1T with 20" wheels (estimated range of 267 mi)

Assuming a 135KWh battery pack (the "large pack")

R1T with 21" wheels - 314mi/135KWh ≈ 2.3mi/KWh
R1T with 20" wheels - 265mi/135KWh ≈ 2.0mi/KWh

Rivian's claim of 140 miles in 20 minutes ≈ equivalent of 420mi/hr

For Rivian's claim to be true, two things need to be true. First, the R1T and the charging station would need to stay at peak charge (wait for it) for at least 20 minutes. TFL's charging curve (see 13:05 minutes into the video) shows that the peak charge did last about 20 minutes. Second, the peak charge needs to reach close to 200KWh.

Here's my math:

Rivian's claim of 140 miles in 20 minutes ≈ 420mi/hr

R1T with 21" wheels - 314mi/135KWh ≈ 2.3mi/KWh
420mi/hr ÷ 2.3mi/KWh ≈ 182KW (peak charge for 20 minutes needed for Rivian's claim)

R1T with 20" wheels - 265mi/135KWh ≈ 2.0mi/KWh
420mi/hr ÷ 2.0mi/KWh ≈ 210KW (peak charge for 20 minutes needed for Rivian's claim)

 

[SeaGeo]

Rivian's 140 miles in 20 minutes seems reasonable assuming their claim of 200Kw peak charging.

Here's my math.

R1T with 21" wheels (estimated range of 314 mi)
R1T with 20" wheels (estimated range of 267 mi)

Assuming a 135KWh battery pack (the "large pack")

R1T with 21" wheels - 314mi/135KWh ≈ 2.3mi/KWh
R1T with 20" wheels - 265mi/135KWh ≈ 2.0mi/KWh

Rivian's claim of 140 miles in 20 minutes ≈ equivalent of 420mi/hr

For Rivian's claim to be true, two things need to be true. First, the R1T and the charging station would need to stay at peak charge (wait for it) for at least 20 minutes. TFL's charging curve (see 13:05 minutes into the video) shows that the peak charge did last about 20 minutes. Second, the peak charge needs to reach close to 200KWh.

Here's my math:

Rivian's claim of 140 miles in 20 minutes ≈ 420mi/hr

R1T with 21" wheels - 314mi/135KWh ≈ 2.3mi/KWh
420mi/hr ÷ 2.3mi/KWh ≈ 182KW (peak charge for 20 minutes needed for Rivian's claim)

R1T with 20" wheels - 265mi/135KWh ≈ 2.0mi/KWh
420mi/hr ÷ 2.0mi/KWh ≈ 210KW (peak charge for 20 minutes needed for Rivian's claim)

Yep. I've been assuming it's based on the 21s, and they need to average ~182 kW over 45% of the pack basically. Since Tommy was never over 151kw starting at 15% on their other test something else is up. At least in my mind.

 

[rhuber]

I have some useful colo(u)r to add here, as I just drove a Model S Plaid 4000 miles using only Electrify America and a CCS adapter...

tldr: With the Plaid I ran into some EA stations (mostly the ABB units iirc) on I-80, which peaked at 350 amps instead of the CCS spec limit of 500 amps. In those cases, my maximum charge rate also peaked near 150kW. I know TFL (/cc @TFLtommy) has limited time, but I'd look for a Signet or other manufacturer unit to test on, as this may be an ABB+400V architecture quirk, and one I definitely experienced myself.

EDIT: @TFLtommy if you have time, I would try this EVgo station with Signet units, which is the closest one I can find to the EA station where you did the test: https://www.plugshare.com/location/343002

The plaid has a very similar voltage profile to the Rivian, both of which are reported to peak around 460V at 100% SoC. When the car hit 500A, my charging profile had me hitting a peak of 218kW at approx 39% SoC, which is the point where voltage and amperage converge at optimal.

On my trip, I ran across a few stations that were unwilling to provide more than 350A, and they were definitely capping me at 150kW instead of the much better rates I was able to hit at other EA stops. I can share a lot of data on this, as I logged everything, but here is a short writeup with a bit of info:



In fact, here is a screenshot of my charge curve from 0% (reported) SoC up to 74%, at one of the stations that would only give me 350A, instead of 500A. It looks VERY similar to the curve TFL saw until 70-ish%, after which, rivian seems to throttle more aggressively. We even both hit the same peak of around 150kW right at 50% SoC.

 

[Trandall]

I'm picking up two key points nobody has mentioned yet about the 140 miles in 20 minutes data given by Rivian. #1 it is given when using a combination of Rivians adventure network of DC fast chargers and the R1 vehicles not any given charger rated over 200KWH, #2 the statement is "up to..." so I would not take this to be the average but the best you will see in ideal conditions. If we are likely to see 160 miles in 20 minutes or 140 miles in 16 minutes Then the statement "up to..." would be incorrect. Tommy's two data points may well fit perfectly into the average of what we are likely to see.

 

[SeaGeo]

I have some useful colo(u)r to add here, as I just drove a Model S Plaid 4000 miles using only Electrify America and a CCS adapter...

tldr: With the Plaid I ran into some EA stations (mostly the ABB units iirc) on I-80, which peaked at 350 amps instead of the CCS spec limit of 500 amps. In those cases, my maximum charge rate also peaked near 150kW. I know TFL (/cc @TFLtommy) has limited time, but I'd look for a Signet or other manufacturer unit to test on, as this may be an ABB+400V architecture quirk, and one I definitely experienced myself.

EDIT: @TFLtommy if you have time, I would try this EVgo station with Signet units, which is the closest one I can find to the EA station where you did the test: https://www.plugshare.com/location/343002

The plaid has a very similar voltage profile to the Rivian, both of which are reported to peak around 460V at 100% SoC. When the car hit 500A, my charging profile had me hitting a peak of 218kW at approx 39% SoC, which is the point where voltage and amperage converge at optimal.

On my trip, I ran across a few stations that were unwilling to provide more than 350A, and they were definitely capping me at 150kW instead of the much better rates I was able to hit at other EA stops. I can share a lot of data on this, as I logged everything, but here is a short writeup with a bit of info:



In fact, here is a screenshot of my charge curve from 0% (reported) SoC up to 74%, at one of the stations that would only give me 350A, instead of 500A. It looks VERY similar to the curve TFL saw until 70-ish%, after which, rivian seems to throttle more aggressively. We even both hit the same peak of around 150kW right at 50% SoC.

1. Welcome to the forum. Your CCS adapter and road trip is awesome!
2. This is awesome insight, and the sort of thing why I was asking Tommy if the two chargers they tried were both the same manufacturer.

 

[SeaGeo]

I'm picking up two key points nobody has mentioned yet about the 140 miles in 20 minutes data given by Rivian. #1 it is given when using a combination of Rivians adventure network of DC fast chargers and the R1 vehicles not any given charger rated over 200KWH, #2 the statement is "up to..." so I would not take this to be the average but the best you will see in ideal conditions. If we are likely to see 160 miles in 20 minutes or 140 miles in 16 minutes Then the statement "up to..." would be incorrect. Tommy's two data points may well fit perfectly into the average of what we are likely to see.

Yeah, I think the "key" here (at least to me) is that in order to get to their claimed spec, you have to average ~182kw over about 45% of the batter. So never hitting more than 150kw most likely means something is going on at the moment with either software of the EA chargers. The latter of which I think surprises nobody.

 

[Andystroh]

It’s not far off from this curve, but a rivian was charging on my local EA in Colorado last week and was at 151kW at 60% SOC, which is a bit higher rate than they saw at 60% in this video. This was on a 150kW charger so it couldn’t be any higher. Just adding some more evidence that this is one time point… it hasn’t been frigid but it also hasn’t been warm in CO lately. I haven’t recorded the temps while charging but I haven’t seen greater than 50kW on my ID4 in a while, very different than summer.

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