Scout Launch Delayed to 2028: Report [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[cjones1130]

They are much, much, much better than ICEV in terms of the environment. Even if you factor in using the dirtiest source of electricity, they are still cleaner than an equivalent ICEV.

Obviously no vehicle at all is the cleanest option, but I have a feeling that trying to walk everywhere is gonna put quite the cramp in your day. If there are gonna be cars, then it should be cars that do the least amount of damage to our planet. Right now, that's EVs.

That is a lot of much(es)...lol.

I'm not just referencing the fueling of the vehicle but all aspects. The "carbon" it costs to create a BEV is astronomically higher than an ICE vehicle. Longevity is also a current issues (maybe LFP can slightly mitigate some of this loss), EV throwaway is a major concern of mine.

Also intangibles such as added weight to local roads/parking garages and upgrades needed to the energy grid(s). Oh and building charging networks is far from being free for the environment, not to mention maintaining those networks.

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[cjones1130]

While that is technically true, you do also have to account for use case. I can't haul a half ton of river rock or gravel in an Accord or Prius. I can in my R1T.

You could it just wouldn't be pretty

 

[VandalSibs]

That is a lot of much(es)...lol.

I'm not just referencing the fueling of the vehicle but all aspects. The "carbon" it costs to create a BEV is astronomically higher than an ICE vehicle. Longevity is also a current issues (maybe LFP can slightly mitigate some of this loss), EV throwaway is a major concern of mine.

Also intangibles such as added weight to local roads/parking garages and upgrades needed to the energy grid(s). Oh and building charging networks is far from being free for the environment, not to mention maintaining those networks.

I wouldn't say astronomically higher. It is higher, depending on the source of the materials in the batteries (and what kind of battery is used, like the mentioned LFP chemistry). However, once a BEV is built, it stops directly emitting GHGs - ICEVs keep doing so, for the lifetime of the vehicle. Which adds up.

Looking at the ancillary carbon emissions after manufacture, the general consensus right now is that even with coal-burning power plants being the only source of your BEV's electricity (which it most likely isn't, but we're going a bit theoretical here), the BEV has cancelled out the carbon costs of its manufacture after a few thousand miles of driving. Very much not the same as an ICEV, which keeps adding to its carbon costs. And there are emissions involved in delivering the fuel to gas stations (fuel trucks!). Electricity is delivered to my truck without having to get loaded into another vehicle and driven somewhere.

This study breaks things down in lots of detail, for lots of geographic regions all over the world: A global comparison of the life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions of combustion engine and electric passenger cars - International Council on Clean Transportation. If you have a source for your claim of "astronomically higher" emissions for battery manufacture, I'd love to see it!

Out of curiosity, what got you into your Rivian? Was there an environmental aspect, or was it entirely something else?

 

[cjones1130]

Cradle to gate emissions analysis where some state up to 100% more to manufacture! Don't negate other points that are indirectly related to not just Rivian, but all EVs.

Def not environmental impact, b/c as previously mentioned I do not think BEV's are the answer, esp not Li-ion, and in my opinion far from it; and when you're "giving up" a fully capable vehicle that has decades of usable life it dampens the green spirit even moreso.

I was primarily drawn to it because I was in need of a pickup truck, intrigued by the capabilities and liked the size of the vehicle. Not having to put gasoline in it is just a bonus (and sometimes a negative depending on many miles I'm driving), thank goodness I rarely pull a trailer!

 

[mkhuffman]

I can't haul a half ton of river rock or gravel in an Accord or Prius. I can in my R1T.

And you definitely should. As often as possible.

I see another 60 bags of mulch in my future.

And you can drive over curbs. On purpose.

 

[eviceman]

https://www.scoutforums.com/forum/threads/scout-launch-delayed-until-2028-summer-report.17132/

May be due to the ongoing conflicts between VW and Rivian on that big deal related to the electronics deal

 

[M3_R2]

Cradle to Gate:

Volvo XC60: ~14 to 16 tonnes CO2e
Volvo EX60 P12 (worst case model): ~18 to 21 tonnes CO2e

In my area/energy source, parity would be achieved in 6-9 month.

Though for me, 80% energy use will be from solar generation.

I would anticipate the R2 to weigh in at around 12 to 14 tonnes CO2e.

 

[cjones1130]

Cradle to Gate:

Volvo XC60: ~14 to 16 tonnes CO2e
Volvo EX60 P12 (worst case model): ~18 to 21 tonnes CO2e

In my area/energy source, parity would be achieved in 6-9 month.

Though for me, 80% energy use will be from solar generation.

I would anticipate the R2 to weigh in at around 12 to 14 tonnes CO2e.

Makes sense for smaller SUVs and the upcoming R2 but I was specifically referencing the R1's. Here's a comparison for what I/we drive. Please note this is a Gen 2 Dual Motor R1T, I think it has the lowest C2G, please correct me if another version is lower.

	Toyota Tacoma (ICE)	Rivian R1T (BEV)
Cradle-to-Gate	~15 tonnes CO2e	~29 tonnes CO2e
Use Phase (Per 10,000 mi)	~6.5 tonnes (Avg. 20 MPG)	~0.5–1.5 tonnes (Grid dependent)
Parity Point	-	~25,000–30,000 miles

 

[VandalSibs]

Curious, where are you getting the Use Phase numbers for the R1 line?

 

[cjones1130]

Curious, where are you getting the Use Phase numbers for the R1 line?

As curious as you seem to be I'd imagine Google should be a close friend....but lmgtfy

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.rivian.com/2md5qhoeajym/4wuFZHyC16SDwjbJN7a6jp/3cebeda53487aa4f9f91c273fb4fe1c3/R1T_Dual-Motor_Carbon_Footprint_v1.0.pdf

 

[VandalSibs]

As curious as you seem to be I'd imagine Google should be a close friend....but lmgtfy

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.rivian.com/2md5qhoeajym/4wuFZHyC16SDwjbJN7a6jp/3cebeda53487aa4f9f91c273fb4fe1c3/R1T_Dual-Motor_Carbon_Footprint_v1.0.pdf

I've just gotten to the point that I don't trust Google anymore - both with the quality of the search results to how the company itself behaves.

I do appreciate the link to Rivian's report on the dual motor model - lots of really nerdy data in there to dive into. Maybe they have something similar for the newer model years with the big change to amounts of materials...

 

[NY_Rob]

I've just gotten to the point that I don't trust Google anymore - both with the quality of the search results to how the company itself behaves.

I don't think you're alone brother! As they start accepting AI Slop as legitimate results along with their underlying need to mix in paid-for results, their searches become more like advertisements and less like real search results. I've switched my browser Search Engine to DuckDuckGo and am now not immediately bombarded with sketchy results populating the first few pages of every search.

 

[cjones1130]

I don't think you're alone brother! As they start accepting AI Slop as legitimate results along with their underlying need to mix in paid-for results their searches become more like advertisements and less like real search results. I've switched my browser Search Engine to DuckDuckGo and am now not immediately bombarded with sketchy results populating the first few pages of every search.

I started using the duck 4-5 years ago, holding my breath they stay clean!

 

[NY_Rob]

I started using the duck 4-5 years ago, holding my breath they stay clean!

You know what they say... "if it walks like a duck.."


I've been using Duck for about 6 months now. I started on my Linux computers and tablets then migrated to it on my Windows PC's now too. It's like Google used to be years ago!

 

[BigSkies]

Makes sense for smaller SUVs and the upcoming R2 but I was specifically referencing the R1's. Here's a comparison for what I/we drive. Please note this is a Gen 2 Dual Motor R1T, I think it has the lowest C2G, please correct me if another version is lower.

	Toyota Tacoma (ICE)	Rivian R1T (BEV)
Cradle-to-Gate	~15 tonnes CO2e	~29 tonnes CO2e
Use Phase (Per 10,000 mi)	~6.5 tonnes (Avg. 20 MPG)	~0.5–1.5 tonnes (Grid dependent)
Parity Point	-	~25,000–30,000 miles

It always makes me happy to see people doing climate math. Understanding the scale of different aspects of emissions is intuitively hard for most people until the numbers come out.

I really like the IEA's tool for comparing ICE vs. EV. It's mostly designed for a non-US audience with everything in metric. But it seems to be pretty comprehensive.

At a high level, the IEA seems to have a lower production emissions than yours across both drive trains. That's probably just a difference in methodology.

The IEA also factors in upstream oil & gas emissions, which is a biggie. This is the emissions from getting the oil out of the ground, transported, refined, and to your vehicle. The scenario I just ran has these lifecycle emissions from ICE nearly as large as the entire operating emissions from an EV.

I've done some of the amateur math myself, just as a way to understand how important certain decisions are. How big is solar vs home electrification vs EV's?

A couple good tools I've found:

-The EIA will tell you how much emissions are related to the combustion of different fuels. Note that "tons" in climate math is always quoted in metric tons, so factor that into your conversions.

-You can get more accurate information on your emissions for electricity from the EPA. Look for the Output emissions rates for your state. The US average emissions/kWh was 0.947 in 2018, and down to 0.767 in 2023 (they've unfortunately stopped updating this data). However, different states range from ~2lbs/kWh for coal heavy states to 0.26lbs/kWh for Washington state (hydropower).

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