January/Feb delivery windows

[mgc0216]

So is it safe to say that the "first mile" drive opportunities, or even the one on one drive opportunities prior to taking delivery have halted?

No. It's not safe to say this. I can't say anymore other than that.

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[Taycanfrank]

Maybe, although I’ve been assured by my Guide that the direct-sales issue in Washington won’t cause any problems. The purchase will just be processed elsewhere and then the car “imported” into the state

How would this possibly work? If the car is being registered in Washington, how would it not be considered a direct sale? If you buy a car out of state, you pay taxes in the state you register it.. not purchase it. You'd need a residence or LLC in a different state to register and import it. If Rivian is "buying" the car and reselling it, you'd be purchasing a used car which means no tax rebate and different loan/insurance terms.

I can't help but wonder if this isn't a real issue that Rivian is hoping becomes a non-issue by the time they've really ramped up deliveries. I know most states are trying to update the law to allow direct sales by companies like Rivian.

Tesla is grandfathered in, obviously, but if someone knows of any loophole Rivian can use that doesn't force them to sell the car used I'd like to hear more about it.

 

[mgc0216]

How would this possibly work? If the car is being registered in Washington, how would it not be considered a direct sale? If you buy a car out of state, you pay taxes in the state you register it.. not purchase it. You'd need a residence or LLC in a different state to register and import it. If Rivian is "buying" the car and reselling it, you'd be purchasing a used car which means no tax rebate and different loan/insurance terms.

I can't help but wonder if this isn't a real issue that Rivian is hoping becomes a non-issue by the time they've really ramped up deliveries. I know most states are trying to update the law to allow direct sales by companies like Rivian.

Tesla is grandfathered in, obviously, but if someone knows of any loophole Rivian can use that doesn't force them to sell the car used I'd like to hear more about it.

Non-rhetorical question because I no longer live in Washington:

How does it work for Tesla today?

 

[Shzeph]

How would this possibly work? If the car is being registered in Washington, how would it not be considered a direct sale? If you buy a car out of state, you pay taxes in the state you register it.. not purchase it. You'd need a residence or LLC in a different state to register and import it. If Rivian is "buying" the car and reselling it, you'd be purchasing a used car which means no tax rebate and different loan/insurance terms.

I can't help but wonder if this isn't a real issue that Rivian is hoping becomes a non-issue by the time they've really ramped up deliveries. I know most states are trying to update the law to allow direct sales by companies like Rivian.

Tesla is grandfathered in, obviously, but if someone knows of any loophole Rivian can use that doesn't force them to sell the car used I'd like to hear more about it.

My understanding is that the car is registered in the other state first. So you’d pay the taxes in that state, as if you had gone there and bought it yourself. And then it’s “imported” into Washington, so a new registration is created

I’m by no means an expert on this, just going off of what my Guide has said and tiny bit of Googling I’ve done

 

[Shzeph]

Non-rhetorical question because I no longer live in Washington:

How does it work for Tesla today?

Tesla is grandfathered in in Washington, so they are allowed direct sales here. But in other states…..

This is how a news article described the process Tesla and Tesla buyers have to go through in Texas

“Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.”

 

[Taycanfrank]

My understanding is that the car is registered in the other state first. So you’d pay the taxes in that state, as if you had gone there and bought it yourself. And then it’s “imported” into Washington, so a new registration is created

I’m by no means an expert on this, just going off of what my Guide has said and tiny bit of Googling I’ve done

You're always paying sales tax in your home state, there's no way around that (well, unless your state doesn't have sales tax). Some states require you to also pay sales tax if you pick up a car there, but you can usually apply that to the sales tax owed in your home state.

Ie.. if you buy a car in California while living in WA, you have to pay CA sales tax to drive it out of CA. You then have to pay WA sales tax, but WA allows you to credit what you already paid CA towards your balance. If you get it shipped to WA instead, you only pay WA sales tax.

Interesting the "not technically delivering you a car loophole". I wonder if Rivian can do that and who would be on the hook if the state came after you. Feels like more of a "Elon Musk and some important people in Texas are buddies so wink wink" arrangement.

I guess that could be the same thought as Shzeph is led to believe, that it's more important where you physically gain custody of the car vs where it's registered? Seems like something the state could absolutely come after you for if they wanted to, with fines & property seizure. I doubt any state is going to do that but still worth considering.

 

[RWerksman]

My understanding is that the car is registered in the other state first. So you’d pay the taxes in that state, as if you had gone there and bought it yourself. And then it’s “imported” into Washington, so a new registration is created

My understanding is that it's equivalent to buying from a dealer that is physically located out of state. They can actually submit the documentation to your state DMV along with the tax payment on your behalf. E.g. no double registration and fees.

The limiting part is that the sale portion needs to be done remote, and there may be restrictions on physical locations or service centers based on what state we're talking about.

 

[Shzeph]

Yeah, @RWerksman put it better than I did.

It's the same as buying any car from an out-of-state dealership. As long as the sale isn't processed in the direct-ban state, it doesn't run afoul of any laws.

And at least in Washington, there's no rule against service centers (as proven by the existence of the Bellevue Service Center)

 

[EarlyAdptr]

Oregon makes it easy to buy a car, unlike it's northern neighbor. I suspect issues surrounding direct sales in Washington state are preventing non-employee deliveries.

Last week I had a friendly (super nice) encounter with the Bellevue Service Center team member (leader?) who told me Rivian had the whole WA State purchase thing figured out. He mentioned there was some Power of Attorney to establish, and then Rivian could register the vehicle for us in WA and we would receive the title and plates in the mail. Not exactly sure if it works that way, or what the specifics are, but that put me at ease.

Also, seemed like they were 'grooming' a few trucks for customer delivery

 

[godfodder0901]

As many have said, it's a non-issue. The sale will take place out of Illinois, but the vehicle will never be registered out of state. Taxes and registration will be handled by Rivian for the state of Washington. The biggest impact to you as a Washingtonian is that Rivian will not be legally bound to the states consumer protection bills like the Lemon Law since the sale technically took place outside of the state. It's fundamentally no different than buying a truck from a dealer in Idaho and registering it in WA.

 

[Taycanfrank]

That makes sense then. I mean, it doesn't make logical sense but it makes sense with the insanity of our legal system.

"Boss, this guy bought a Rivian in WA! We don't allow direct sales!"
"Go get him!"
"Oh, wait.. no... the "sale location" was Illinois."
"But.. they live in WA, registered it to WA and took delivery in WA?"
"Yes.. but.. but.. Rivian said they sold the car in Illinois so there's nothing we can do."
""

I mean, the original law is dumb so I like the loophole but it's kind of funny. Thanks to those who clarified.

 

[Shzeph]

It would be nice if every state just told the dealership model to GTFO, but alas, we are not quite there yet it seems

 

[Guy]

No. It's not safe to say this. I can't say anymore other than that.

Why is it not safe to say this since nothing has happened for a couple of months and nothing is currently advertised.

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[mgc0216]

Based on the last sentence that you quoted from mgc0216, it sounds like he is both in a position to know and in a position such that he can not share the specifics of what he knows.

I think safe to assume plans were put on hold as a result of the omicron spike. As that currently appears to be in retreat, I am hopeful that things will gear up again real S00N.

yep.

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