Why I’m leaving the Rivian Family After Owning / Leasing 3 R1Ts

[justinkitswa]

Software, even the absolute best on the planet, cannot defy physics.
Your old Tacoma didn't sink in soft sand because it was probably about half as heavy as the Rivian, with a similar size tire contact patch at 20 psi. You could also probably air down to around 8-15 psi in the Taco without popping the bead, can't do that in a Rivian (simply too heavy)

To be honest, I can't understand why both Rivian and Tesla chose to market these vehicles as 'extreme off road capable' - the physics of a 8,000+ pound vehicle on sand or soft mud dictates they will sink. I used to try and 'off road' 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, until I learned every time they'd sink in sand or mud, or slide off the road. Weight is an enemy off road, it's why the Jeep, Toyotas, vintage Land Rovers/land cruisers, etc all did so well, they all weigh almost nothing.

I find it annoying that these things are sold as ultimate adventure vehicles - they're not. They're great on the road - they're quiet, comfortable, etc. That does not make them good at leaving pavement. Do they handle dirt fire roads, gravel, yeah...

Do folks on here take them actually offroad? Absolutely. And they'll no doubt reply to this comment and inform me how stupid I am for insinuating they aren't meant for extreme off road service.

Lots of people here take these off-road, and many times they've made it out without issues - but weight is the enemy in those conditions, and a lighter vehicle with good ground clearance and 4wd will do better universally.

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[RedRaiderRivian]

I think heavy EVs and soft sand simply don’t go together, regardless of tires or tire pressure.

I am an avid watcher of the Matt's Offroad Recovery channel and he drives an 11,500 pound truck in loose sand with bead locks and <10 psi tires. I agree with the OP that Rivian probably oversold the soft sand capabilities but I still wonder how much of that is dependent on the wheel setup. It might be cheaper to buy a different set of rims/wheels for sand if they are available than to own a different vehicle.

 

[DuoRivians]

I am an avid watcher of the Matt's Offroad Recovery channel and he drives an 11,500 pound truck in loose sand with bead locks and <10 psi tires. I agree with the OP that Rivian probably oversold the soft sand capabilities but I still wonder how much of that is dependent on the wheel setup. It might be cheaper to by a different set of rims/wheels for sand than to own a different vehicle.

The wrecker’s tires are massive to distribute the weight. There’s no way a consumer EV will have tires that big.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

The wrecker’s tires are massive to distribute the weight. There’s no way a consumer EV will have tires that big.

Understood but is there a setup with a wide enough tire that could distribute the weight is my question. The issue is not purely weight it is about flotation on the sand and having the bead locks to be able to drop the pressure enough to keep the tires on the rims. I don't have sand where I live and am not a beach person so have never looked into this. My second set of tires is for rocks and construction sites that I visit for my job and I have the tire swap process down to 30 minutes.

 

[Audiotek]

@Morgan J Thanks for posting!

I agree with the concept of family first, and you are dutiful and probably extremely Pious as well.

I want my family to be safe as well.

Unmentioned fact is Rivian has been manufacturing vehicles for almost 5 years. I would recommend you not to be sanctimonious.

The legacy automakers have been manufacturing cars more than 100 years and still have defects and recalls annually.

 

[daeHelkcunK]

I'm pretty sure the BMW will sink pretty nicely in soft sand too.

 

[mkg3]

I really wanted to love my Rivian. The design, the performance, the technology and the promise of an American electric adventure vehicle were all incredibly appealing....

For me, it’s simply time to move on.

Don't know why so many people cannot simply accept you're going a different way than what you have had. Maybe how the original post started?

Good luck in your next vehicle and beyond. Maybe you'll be back to Rivian one day or maybe not and that;s just fine. You don't need to defend your decisions.

I will not be buying another Rivian - no because of all issues but there are so many alternatives and I already own a Rivian. It's sort of like going back to the same restaurant over and over again. I like to try new places.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

To be honest, I can't understand why both Rivian and Tesla chose to market these vehicles as 'extreme off road capable' - the physics of a 8,000+ pound vehicle on sand or soft mud dictates they will sink

Right? I don’t think the R1 is any more of an off-road vehicle than a Honda Passport. This was made really clear to me over the 4th of July weekend when someone’s R1 undercarriage was taken out because they parked on the side of the road over 18” of dirt. That ended up being a very expensive weekend.

That said, when it works, it’s a fun mall crawler.

 

[2kwik4u]

Right? I don’t think the R1 is any more of an off-road vehicle than a Honda Passport. This was made really clear to me over the 4th of July weekend when someone’s R1 undercarriage was taken out because they parked on the side of the road over 18” of dirt. That ended up being a very expensive weekend.

That said, when it works, it’s a fun mall crawler.

What's this about 18in of dirt taking out an R1? There has to be more to it than that. I've drug mine over a boulder before on the undercarriage and it didn't seem to care much. There's that other one that was washed away in the NC flood that was recovered and drove away. There's also the ones MotorTrend took cross country off road that survived much worse.

I think the comparison to a Honda Passport is equally as absurd as the comparison to "extreme offroad" claims at the top of the page. Neither is correct. It's more capable than a Passport and less capable than a dedicated off road machine. It's likely the most capable vehicle you would enjoy spending multiple hours in on the road.

 

[2kwik4u]

That fair, I do worry that some day they will sell off the R1&2 lines and just focus on software. Its a much simpler business.

From a business standpoint, I think it's the right move for them. The UI is VERY good, especially considering it's relative age. The zonal architecture, and AI based software direction are great as business model enhancements as well. They are actively diversifying by selling more than just a consumer vehicle. That's good for overall business longevity.

It's not great for vehicle design and implementation though. Going to continue to have more software defined features that are shipped early and half baked instead of being full solutions. The "fix it with updates" trend in vehicles in general leads to initially shipping minimally viable product. Sure it cuts down time to ship, however it also handcuffs you on alternative solutions that might be more robust.

They do suffer from the Dunning-Kreuger effect pretty badly in my experience. Take the tailgate and rear portion of the truck. There's a reason step bumpers exist, and it's not because they're pretty. There's a reason physical handles exist, and it's not because legacy truck makers are afraid of tech. There's a reason beds aren't made of plastic that both fades and scores easily. This goes to my comment about engineering before. They spend a lot of time thinking up new solutions to problems that have already been solved, for what I can tell, is for no good reason.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

What's this about 18in of dirt taking out an R1? There has to be more to it than that. I've drug mine over a boulder before on the undercarriage and it didn't seem to care much. There's that other one that was washed away in the NC flood that was recovered and drove away. There's also the ones MotorTrend took cross country off road that survived much worse.

I think the comparison to a Honda Passport is equally as absurd as the comparison to "extreme offroad" claims at the top of the page. Neither is correct. It's more capable than a Passport and less capable than a dedicated off road machine. It's likely the most capable vehicle you would enjoy spending multiple hours in on the road.

First off all, I’ve never said anything abused

The Passport is actually really capable. It wasn’t mean as a dig.

As far at the R1 that had an issue, I don’t know exactly what happened. I just know the driver drove around the lake for a couple days with a very loud noise after the incident. Who knows, maybe she messed it up beforehand, but it wasn’t exactly something I was going to be able to dissect

 

[fratpack]

I really wanted to love my Rivian. The design, the performance, the technology and the promise of an American electric adventure vehicle were all incredibly appealing.

But after multiple vehicles, repeated service issues, sensor and camera problems, warning lights, reliability concerns and experiences that have made my family uncomfortable and unsafe riding in it, I’ve reached the point where the ownership experience simply isn’t worth the stress. Bought it to drive on the beaches near me, but even with tires at 20psi, the truck is simply too heavy and sinks in even medium sand. Rescue tracks work, but not how I want to spend my time. I was told SOFT SAND mode is incredible. Well, all 2 trucks got stuck multiple times. My Tacoma NEVER got stuck. I wish I'd kept it, TBH.

Leaving Rivian isn’t about one minor defect or expecting perfection. It’s about having too many issues—some inconvenient, others involving safety—and never feeling completely confident that the vehicle will behave as it should. My family now refuses to drive in it, and that ultimately made the decision for me.

I’m going to break the lease and move into an EV BMW X5 for now. I want Apple CarPlay, dependable safety cameras, a great ride, a huge sunroof and a vehicle my family actually feels comfortable using.

Longer term, I’m very interested in the Scout from Volkswagen. It looks like it may deliver the rugged capability and electric experience I originally hoped Rivian would provide, so I’ll be watching closely. In meantime, I'm going to use BMW for Brooklyn / Long Island round trips, and get a used Tacoma just for beach driving. Can leave tires at 20psi.

I’m not rooting against Rivian. I genuinely hope the company succeeds (I invested in some stock) and improves its quality control, service and reliability.

I'll reconsider then.

But at this price point, ownership should feel exciting—not like a continuing source of anxiety and headaches.

For me, it’s simply time to move on.

 

[fratpack]

I am kind of thinking to cancel my R2 order. Even though I have not actually driven a Rivian, I have read many service related issues. What makes me worry the most is that if Rivian is having service issues now, what is going to happen when there are 500K Rivians on the road? Secondly is their hifgh lease/finance pricing. I feel that Rivian is taking advantage of the moment and over pricing the vehicles even though they harped affordability since the get go. I was considering paying cash but then I would be facing the tremendous depreciation of the vehicle. Good luck with your BMW purchase.

 

[Morgan J]

Not sure what your problems with the cameras might have been, But unspecified dependability issues aside, It sounds like your biggest issue was not being able to drive on the beach as you expected.

On this particular point I would agree. Rivian oversold the R1 offroad ability. I too had a Tacoma. And it was a much more capable vehicle off the road - especially self-extraction from sand and traction control in general.

Toyota as a company was also much more vendor modification and user repair friendly.

But In my particular case, the Tacoma was no more dependable. In the first month I was left at the side of the road in the rain due to a faulty crankshaft position sensor (CPS). These things happen.

No single vehicle is going to meet everyone's needs. As good as it was in many ways, I can't see myself ever going back to a Tacoma from the R1T. For you, a used Tacoma for the beach seems like a great idea.

 

[DaveA]

I am kind of thinking to cancel my R2 order. Even though I have not actually driven a Rivian, I have read many service related issues. What makes me worry the most is that if Rivian is having service issues now, what is going to happen when there are 500K Rivians on the road? Secondly is their hifgh lease/finance pricing. I feel that Rivian is taking advantage of the moment and over pricing the vehicles even though they harped affordability since the get go. I was considering paying cash but then I would be facing the tremendous depreciation of the vehicle. Good luck with your BMW purchase.

What has bogged up service centers has been the Gen 1 suspension issues, half-shafts and panel adjustment appointments, along with expected first Gen gremlins. R2 is so simplified drivetrain wise that probably 75% of the problems Gen 1s had has now been eliminated in R2. AI robots now review the fit and finish of the panels, so they eliminated that potential bottleneck of panel adjustments. That's the hope anyway.

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