Why I won't be waiting for Gen3 Autonomy+ hardware on R2

[Just Passing By]

It’s a massive leap in computing power and camera resolution

What is your source for the RAP1 equipped R2 having a change in camera resolution? I haven't seen any mention of this, just the addition or the LIDAR sensor and RAP1 processor.

There are also many people from what I've read who are disappointed in the colors and lack of coastal cloud interior at launch.

You're painting with too broad of a brush here. Those commenting on colors are clearly a small number in the context of the projected 2026 sales of 20-25k. What also tends to be overlooked is that Rivian know exactly how many of which color they have sold for R1 over time, so they have a very good idea of what colors are likely to dominate sales for R2.

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[Jeremy3292]

What is your source for the RAP1 equipped R2 having a change in camera resolution? I haven't seen any mention of this, just the addition or the LIDAR sensor and RAP1 processor.

Total is 65 megapixels in Gen3 vs 55 megapixels in Gen2. Thread is below with the sources given there.

"2. The Cameras: Similar, but NOT the same ones from R1
Rivian is sticking with the 11-camera layout we know from R1, but they’ve given everything a nice little spec bump. Slightly higher dynamic range, etc. But there are 10 megapixels of resolution somewhere. R1 G2 has 55MP of resolution, R2 has 65MP"

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ar-rap1-ai-chip-cameras-radar-software.53775/

Radars also:

"3. The Radars: The front imaging radar seems to be unchanged. But the corner radars have been upgraded to dual mode radars. That basically means they canfar away (for driving down the road) and up close (for parking). This replaces the sonar sensors in the bumper."

 

[Just Passing By]

Total is 65 megapixels in Gen3 vs 55 megapixels in Gen2. Thread is below with the sources given there.

"2. The Cameras: Similar, but NOT the same ones from R1
Rivian is sticking with the 11-camera layout we know from R1, but they’ve given everything a nice little spec bump. Slightly higher dynamic range, etc. But there are 10 megapixels of resolution somewhere. R1 G2 has 55MP of resolution, R2 has 65MP"

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ar-rap1-ai-chip-cameras-radar-software.53775/

That compares the R2 to the R1S, not the R2 2026 production to the R2 arriving later with RAP1 and LIDAR. No reason why the 2026 R2 would be fitted with different camera sensors to the later version.

 

[Jeremy3292]

That compares the R2 to the R1S, not the R2 2026 production to the R2 arriving later with RAP1 and LIDAR. No reason why the 2026 R2 would be fitted with different camera sensors to the later version.

Edit: I’m an idiot. Keep scrolling.

Well that's definitely wild speculation on your part and I would say a pretty bad straw man argument also. They're not doing a Gen2.5 hardware. It's Gen2 hardware at launch and then Gen3 before end of year as RJ already stated. I'm pretty sure RJ said the R2 hardware at launch is the same as R1 also, but I'll have to find the video of that.

 

[Heavysixer]

I feel like it would make a lot more sense from a manufacturing standpoint for Rivian to have the Gen 3 cameras and radar units on the R2 at launch, and simply add the chip and LIDAR sensor when they're ready. Otherwise, they're re-fitting a lot of different parts that need to be mounted, sealed, qc'd, etc., versus just adding the chip and the sensor to the existing system.

Anyone have any info on this? I dug around a bit but couldn't find anything conclusive, except for mentions of adding the chip and LIDAR, but nothing about swapping out the other pieces of hardware.

[edited for clarity!]

 

[sparked]

Well that's definitely wild speculation on your part and I would say a pretty bad straw man argument also. They're not doing a Gen2.5 hardware. It's Gen2 hardware at launch and then Gen3 before end of year as RJ already stated. I'm pretty sure RJ said the R2 hardware at launch is the same as R1 also, but I'll have to find the video of that.

https://insideevs.com/news/782042/rivian-r2-wont-lidar-retrofit/

You would be wrong. Technically Rivian calls it an "an elevated version of the Gen 2 architecture" at R2 launch with Dual mode radar and the 65MP cameras. This is 4 month old news.

"R2 will launch with compute power and sensors that will be upgraded over today's very advanced Gen 2 R1, at a much more affordable price point. This makes it what we expect to be one of the most advanced vehicles in its category," the spokesperson said. "Our initial launch uses advanced cameras and radar to deliver a competitive price and core safety features for a significantly larger addressable market."

Rivian says that the models will be equipped with the brand's improved 65-megapixel HDR camera system and enhanced dual-mode corner radar.

 

[sparked]

I feel like it would make a lot more sense from a manufacturing standpoint for Rivian to have the Gen 3 cameras and radar units on the R2 at launch, and simply add the chip and LIDAR sensor when they're ready.

That's what they are doing:
https://insideevs.com/news/782042/rivian-r2-wont-lidar-retrofit/

 

[DuoRivian]

You can't have it both ways my man; either L4 is coming soon and you better get your launch edition ASAP for the free lifetime autonomy perk, or it's not coming for 5+ years so anything related to autonomy doesn't matter that much. You're trying to argue both sides of the coin here.

Any position on the value of the free lifetime autonomy+ perk is somewhat spurious right now anyway since there is no guarantee of future pricing or performance. They may increase the price, they may decrease it, they may discontinue the whole thing. In fact there's no guarantee they won't just change the name again like they did with Driver+ and say "your Autonomy+ is free for life! But if you want the latest Adventure+ self-driving features you have to pay the new Adventure+ subscription like everyone else" - exactly like they did two years ago the last time there was an autonomy platform change.

If you're banking on the fact that RJ promised point to point on the Gen 2 platform before the end of this year I'd caution you to go back and listen to everything RJ promised Gen 1 buyers before abandoning that platform. At the end of the day the only way they can break the stigma that comes from their abandonment of the Gen 1 autonomy platform for Gen 2 is by not abandoning the Gen 2 platform when they release Gen 3, but there's no way for us to know until it happens and no real evidence to suggest it will go one way or the other, aside from RJ's (heretofore) empty promises. As is always the case - buy it for what it can do today, because it might not ever get more features.

Not arguing both sides. In each quote I said L4 autonomy (which the LiDAR and RAP1 are for) is five or more years away.
The financial reason also holds true because for those who are waiting to buy in 2027 to get the “better” autonomy (in five years time) they would also have to pay for autonomy plus. Whereas if you get the LE that is already included.

 

[Jeremy3292]

https://insideevs.com/news/782042/rivian-r2-wont-lidar-retrofit/

You would be wrong. Technically Rivian calls it an "an elevated version of the Gen 2 architecture" at R2 launch with Dual mode radar and the 65MP cameras. This is 4 month old news.

Fair play. You are right. I am wrong.

 

[Just Passing By]

Fair play. You are right. I am wrong.

Thank you for your apology

 

[Jeremy3292]

Thank you for your apology

I edited my post take a look

 

[Cmdr A]

I read through the article in InsideEV about no LIDAR for the early production units. Instead they will come with a newer camera system and radar. What I couldn't fully get is what difference LIDAR will make? Will the early ones (camera/radar) not have Universal Hands Free? Or will the ones that have LIDAR just have better performance, like in reduced visibility conditions?

 

[srkz]

Not arguing both sides. In each quote I said L4 autonomy (which the LiDAR and RAP1 are for) is five or more years away.
The financial reason also holds true because for those who are waiting to buy in 2027 to get the “better” autonomy (in five years time) they would also have to pay for autonomy plus. Whereas if you get the LE that is already included.

I’ll just say you’re making a ton of assumptions here. We don’t know that lidar and RAP1 are only for L4, that benefits from lidar and RAP1 are five years away, or indeed what anything will cost in five years (or even in nine months.) It’s 100% supposition for now. Flip of a coin.

If you like what R2 can do today for the price they’re offering it then by all means, but don’t buy early just to lock in a sweet deal on future autonomy because history says you’ll probably be disappointed on that point.

 

[sparked]

I read through the article in InsideEV about no LIDAR for the early production units. Instead they will come with a newer camera system and radar. What I couldn't fully get is what difference LIDAR will make? Will the early ones (camera/radar) not have Universal Hands Free? Or will the ones that have LIDAR just have better performance, like in reduced visibility conditions?

Rivian has said that even Gen 2 vehicles will get upcoming software updates that significantly advance capability this year and next. So an advanced Level 2 and even some version of Level 3 seems like a possibility.

The only thing they've talked about with LiDAR with the initial launch is data collection. Nobody has actually asked them directly if there's any immediate benefit to LiDAR and even Gen 3 Compute when it launches. Longer term, Gen 3 Compute and LiDAR appear to be necessary for Personal Level 4.

 

[Heavysixer]

Rivian has done a great job managing this info, because:

• the people who want to jump in right away (like me!) feel confident that we'll get free Autonomy+ with few if any functional limitations for a few years, which seems like a really solid deal.
• the people who want to wait for Gen3 feel like it's the smarter move because of the tech upside (perhaps because they've seen how this has unfolded with Tesla in the past or experienced the sting of Rivian moving on from the Gen1 tech in the R1).

Either way, we all seem pretty confident in our decisions, and there doesn't seem to be anyone frozen between the two perspectives on this.

All told, that's good information management and feature bundling on Rivian's part!

Now I just want the damn truck so we can complain to each other about build quality, the price you pay for snagging an early model, software glitches, etc!

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