Self driving update: Gen 2 and Gen 3 Autonomy on R2 should be similar for a "couple of years"

[shandering]

Sources would be good.

There was a video by munro years ago after tesla claimed 60% fewer parts in a cybercab. If you count all the parts not in a car and remove 2 seats it is already indeed more than half. You also get more reduction from the new technology.

Reducing part count by60% will bring you that much cost reduction as part count is generally related to overall cost

The cyber cab is EPA certified at 6.05 mi/kWh which means the car can have a battery pack 50% smaller and still hit 300 miles of range

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[Jeremy3292]

There was a video by munro years ago after tesla claimed 60% fewer parts in a cybercab. If you count all the parts not in a car and remove 2 seats it is already indeed more than half. You also get more reductin from the new technology.

The cyber cab is EPA certified at 6.05 mi/kWh which means the car can have a battery pack 50% smaller and still hit 300 miles of range

You gotta stop drinking the Koolaid man. You said "years ago" above and yet here we are today still "years away."

You're not going to be able to buy a Cybercab. It's for recurring revenue for Tesla just like Uber. Even if you could, it's just another Model 3 like car.

 

[shandering]

You gotta stop drinking the Koolaid man. You said "years ago" above and yet here we are today still "years away."

You're not going to be able to buy a Cybercab. It's for recurring revenue for Tesla just like Uber. Even if you could, it's just another Model 3 like car.

Years ago as this was claimed back when the cybercab was first revealed. guess that was late 2024 so not exactly years

If tesla builds a drivable variant of the cybercab, steer by wire still signficiantly reduces the part count.

And as far as cheap cars from china, it's not easy to build a car for less than $29K at all. The only reason they are so cheap is tesla started price wars in china which drove down the costs for everyone

 

[captainjp]

There are definitely people who find the ioniq 5 and ev6 to be ugly as well.

Including me.
Model Y is just too common. It’s the new Lincoln town car. Good on them for selling so many. It’s not for me. Until there’s an actual cosmetic refresh, I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

The CT is as impractical as it gets. The only purpose it serves currently is to make a statement. It contradicts everything about owning a pickup.
Don’t get me started on the three roof rack crossbars. Oof!

 

[mkhuffman]

There was a video by munro years ago after tesla claimed 60% fewer parts in a cybercab. If you count all the parts not in a car and remove 2 seats it is already indeed more than half. You also get more reduction from the new technology.

Reducing part count by60% will bring you that much cost reduction as part count is generally related to overall cost

The cyber cab is EPA certified at 6.05 mi/kWh which means the car can have a battery pack 50% smaller and still hit 300 miles of range

So that $20k estimate is your made up number and has only speculation to back it up.

I'll play that game. The cost to produce the Cybercab is $35k.

 

[shandering]

So that $20k estimate is your made up number and has only speculation to back it up.

I'll play that game. The cost to produce the Cybercab is $35k.

The cost to produce a model Y is around $36K. They have said this many times. The average cost of tesla models is very low in general. When you factor in trim features, included interior/paint, financing, ranges, etc. the Model Y is about $10K less than the R2

Add in cost reduction and 60% fewer parts and it works out to be around $18K. This would account for some extra camera cleaning hardware

The cost for the HW4 computer is $650. That is extremely low.

using a 50kWh battery pack (vs 75+ in other models) already saves you $2500

The cost of the plastic panels is much lower and there is no need to track the panels for paint matching. Normally the body panels are painted at once and then you remove them and track them through the factory. This is not the case

 

[mkhuffman]

The cost to produce a model Y is around $36K. They have said this many times. The average cost of tesla models is very low in general.

Add in cost reduction and 60% fewer parts and it works out to be around $18K. This would account for some extra camera cleaning hardware

The cost for the HW4 computer is $650. That is extremely low.

using a 50kWh battery pack (vs 75+ in other models) already saves you $2500

The cost of the plastic panels is much lower and there is no need to track the panels for paint matching. Normally the body panels are painted at once and then you remove them and track them through the factory. This is not the case

Good points. The cost to produce a Cybercab is likely less than the cost to produce the M3. And I assume the cost to produce the M3 is actually higher than what you say was reported, without any sources to back it up.

So the cost to produce a Cybercab is $31k.

 

[shandering]

Good points. The cost to produce a Cybercab is likely less than the cost to produce the M3. And I assume the cost to produce the M3 is actually higher than what you say was reported, without any sources to back it up.

Tesla reported at one point the average cost of their models was $36K. I believe they did so in 2024 as well. This includes S/X and cybertruck which admittedly do not sell a lot

There are 60% fewer parts and a 50% smaller battery. The cost difference for injection molded plastic panels alone is around $500

i don't think you realize how differen the cybercab is from a normal car. Seats and doors alone is 100s of components. Seats are one of the most expensive parts of a car

The unboxed method they use is completely different and does not look like a car production line. It is built in different modules that they attach together before put the panels/glass on at the end. It is an almost completely automated factory and it was not possible to produce a car like this before.

They need braking with no hydraulics (brembo sensify)etherloop, brake by wire, steer by wire, and plastic panels that do not need color matching.

in a normal car factory they also store prepainted body sets and panels which tesla does not do

 

[mkhuffman]

Tesla reported at one point the average cost of their models was $36K

Right. Whatever you say. It must be true.

 

[shandering]

Right. Whatever you say. It must be true.

It's in the earnings report

The current average cost is around $35K

The model 3 is currently selling for $29K in canada. It is the premium chinese model

 

[r2fb]

If you actually drove the old model Y, the new one is a huge difference. Tesla has leapfrogged the competition in ride quality, interior cabin noise, and build quality whereas the previous model Y was really noisy and had a very harsh ride.

Maybe a huge difference from the 2021-2022 Y's , but not a big comfort leap from the HW4 2023 Y's that had the "comfort suspension". I've ridden them all, the Juniper is just a tad quieter compared to the HW4 legacy Y, with comfort being about the same. Both are vastly more comfortable than a 21/22 Y.

However even the most comfortable Juniper is worlds away from something like an Audi in ride comfort and noise. Tesla has not "leapfrogged the competition" in anything that's related to physicallity of cars. They are nowhere near the top in ride comfort, interior quality, or noise. Only thing they have (and are actively working on) is FSD software that they lock behind a paywall and some neat software stuff that will be soon caught up by others is all they have.

 

[shandering]

I've ridden them all, the Juniper is just a tad quieter compared to the HW4 legacy Y, with comfort being about the same. Both are vastly more comfortable than a 21/22 Y.

It's not a tad quieter. It is about half the perceivable interior noise. It is very quiet and most modern tesla are very quiet. Cybercab is supposedly really silent

People used to put sound dampening materials all over a tesla body and it doesn't seem to do anything. It seems like 90% of the noise only comes from a few small areas and tesla did all of the modifications that make any real difference

 

[r2fb]

It's not a tad quieter. It is about half the perceivable interior noise. It is very quiet and most modern tesla are very quiet. Cybercab is supposedly really silent

It's maybe equivalent to a Toyota, or a GM (excluding Cadillac) but not Lexus or German luxury level. It can never be with those frameless windows. Ride comfort is noticably worse then all of them.

 

[shandering]

It's maybe equivalent to a Toyota, or a GM (excluding Cadillac) but not Lexus or German luxury level. It can never be with those frameless windows. Ride comfort is noticably worse then all of them.

We're talking about the same price range. Ioniq 5, EV6, Mach e, etc.

These are the competitor vehicles. The difference is big from the "comfort" suspension in an old model Y.

Tesla upgraded the seals around all windows and glass. They also upgraded the seals around the mirrors. A small layer of sound dampening in the doors. The biggest difference by far was the road noise coming from the wheel wells and rear quarte panels which they fixed. Doesn't appear they touched anything else.

you get a lot of reduced wind noise simply from good aerodynamics

 

[r2fb]

We're talking about the same price range. Ioniq 5, EV6, Mach e, etc.

These are the competitor vehicles. The difference is big from the "comfort" suspension in an old model Y.

The UItium vehicles I was in (including Honda prologue) had way better ride quality than any model Y I've ridden or driven, so you're wrong. Their forums don't complain about ride quality, yet even Juniper owners still do to this day. Legacy makers really know how to build a car, Tesla does their own thing and they come up short in a few areas.

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