R1T Goes Off-Roading WIth Broncos and Jeeps

[Speedrye]

The only thing that would’ve made it better is if they could have had the R1T pulling out the stuck jeeps and broncos.

Haha, I just picture a Rivian with a snatch strap at the back pulling out a smaller Wrangler and picture a small stone in a slingshot. The Rivians weight would work really well there, but you better have a beefy snatch strap.

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[zefram47]

Search for "S8" at 49 CFR § 571.141 - Standard No. 141; Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

S8 Prohibition on altering the sound of a vehicle subject to this standard. No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may:

(a) Disable, alter, replace, or modify any element of a vehicle installed as original equipment for purposes of complying with this Standard, except in connection with a repair of a vehicle malfunction or to remedy a defect or non-compliance; or

(b) Provide any person with any mechanism, equipment, process, or device intended to disable, alter, replace, or modify the sound emitting capability of a vehicle subject to this standard, except in connection with a repair of vehicle malfunction or to remedy a defect or non-compliance.

For those wanting it disabled off-road, at least here in Colorado many of the trails are designated county roads or fire roads. And if a way, short of disconnecting the speaker, is provided...people will do it. Having been around pre-PWS Teslas like the Roadster, you will not hear them coming...it's unnerving how quiet they are at low speed.

 

[Iwannarivian]

Search for "S8" at 49 CFR § 571.141 - Standard No. 141; Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

S8 Prohibition on altering the sound of a vehicle subject to this standard. No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may:

(a) Disable, alter, replace, or modify any element of a vehicle installed as original equipment for purposes of complying with this Standard, except in connection with a repair of a vehicle malfunction or to remedy a defect or non-compliance; or

(b) Provide any person with any mechanism, equipment, process, or device intended to disable, alter, replace, or modify the sound emitting capability of a vehicle subject to this standard, except in connection with a repair of vehicle malfunction or to remedy a defect or non-compliance.

sure, I get the need when your in a parking lot or backing out of your driveway..but once off-road you shouldn’t have to comply with said (insert acronym) agency’s rules. On that note, pun intended, how are Tesla owners able to alter their cars pedestrian noises….seen some pretty entertaining YT videos of these “sounds”.

 

[zefram47]

On that note, pun intended, how are Tesla owners able to alter their cars pedestrian noises….seen some pretty entertaining YT videos of these “sounds”.

They can't anymore. Tesla just got in trouble for allowing it in the first place.

 

[kylealden]

sure, I get the need when your in a parking lot or backing out of your driveway..but once off-road you shouldn’t have to comply with said (insert acronym) agency’s rules. On that note, pun intended, how are Tesla owners able to alter their cars pedestrian noises….seen some pretty entertaining YT videos of these “sounds”.

Notably, you don't have to comply with these rules (at least according to my not-a-lawyer reading of the regulation).

No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may...​

I don't think that includes individuals or the aftermarket, which is why things like this exist for sale: Isolation Kit for the PWS (Pedestrian Warning System) (abstractocean.com)

I can't in good conscience advocate for using those since there's plenty of evidence that it's a real safety factor, especially for more vulnerable populations, and if you tell me "I'll only install it when off-road" I simply don't believe you. But it's possible.

(Note that plenty of things are both possible and technically legal but still open you up to civil liability if, say, you did hit a pedestrian and they sued you. Having deliberately tampered with pedestrian safety systems is going to be catnip to a tort lawyer.)

 

[Speedrye]

Notably, you don't have to comply with these rules (at least according to my not-a-lawyer reading of the regulation).

No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may...​

I don't think that includes individuals or the aftermarket, which is why things like this exist for sale: Isolation Kit for the PWS (Pedestrian Warning System) (abstractocean.com)

I can't in good conscience advocate for using those since there's plenty of evidence that it's a real safety factor, especially for more vulnerable populations, and if you tell me "I'll only install it when off-road" I simply don't believe you. But it's possible.

(Note that plenty of things are both possible and technically legal but still open you up to civil liability if, say, you did hit a pedestrian and they sued you. Having deliberately tampered with pedestrian safety systems is going to be catnip to a tort lawyer.)

You echoed my thoughts perfectly. I can see having a switch in some capacity, but even that would leave you having to prove the system was active at the time you hit someone. Still hoping for full dashcam capabilites out of the Rivian camera system, but I'll install my own to cover my butt, just the same as the rest of my vehicles, should they not incorporate that functionality. I would likely install a switch to disable the PWS when offroad once I've got the camera part worked out. A simple wireless remote and latching relay would be very easy to work out.

 

[Iwannarivian]

Notably, you don't have to comply with these rules (at least according to my not-a-lawyer reading of the regulation).

No entity subject to the authority of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration may...​

I don't think that includes individuals or the aftermarket, which is why things like this exist for sale: Isolation Kit for the PWS (Pedestrian Warning System) (abstractocean.com)

I can't in good conscience advocate for using those since there's plenty of evidence that it's a real safety factor, especially for more vulnerable populations, and if you tell me "I'll only install it when off-road" I simply don't believe you. But it's possible.

(Note that plenty of things are both possible and technically legal but still open you up to civil liability if, say, you did hit a pedestrian and they sued you. Having deliberately tampered with pedestrian safety systems is going to be catnip to a tort lawyer.)

Thanks Kyle! BTW, nice watching Jimmy take delivery with you guys there…so fun! Seeing your user icon of a R1T with a GFC on it…have you done the homework to see if, in fact, that camper will work? I have struggled to find a camper that will, due to the shark fin antenna and the side aero/spoilers on the rear window sides.

 

[kylealden]

Thanks Kyle! BTW, nice watching Jimmy take delivery with you guys there…so fun! Seeing your user icon of a R1T with a GFC on it…have you done the homework to see if, in fact, that camper will work? I have struggled to find a camper that will, due to the shark fin antenna and the side aero/spoilers on the rear window sides.

I think you have a different Kyle since I haven't gotten to see a delivery yet ?

For the GFC - I have a reservation and have been in touch with them a bit. To be honest the jury is still out. They said on IG a day or two ago that they are working on it (they've had access to one and have scans) and think it's possible, but it's a really challenging design to do without seriously compromising aero and built-in features (presumably the tonneau and bed rail controls). So we'll see.

Typically the GFC clamps to a bed rail - the only way I can see to do that in the Rivian would be to use the tonneau channel, which seems a bit flimsy and would obviously prevent the tonneau from operating. They also use adhesive to stick the bulb seal to the bed rail to prevent dust ingress.

My ideal install would clamp directly to the crossbar mounts and then just ratchet down to keep the bulb seals tight with no adhesive. That way it could be installed and removed easily with a hoist, with no adhesive fuss, and the tonneau would still be operational (so I could leave valuables in the bed with the tonneau closed and not worry about folks breaking a window on the GFC to get in).

At this point it seems like a long shot but I'll wait for them to confirm one way or the other. It's my dream setup for the kind of camping I want to do as long as it doesn't cost me more than ~30% range, which feels achievable. But we'll see!

 

[SoCal Rob]

sure, I get the need when your in a parking lot or backing out of your driveway..but once off-road you shouldn’t have to comply with said (insert acronym) agency’s rules.

I guess it depends on what we’re doing off-road and who is around. I would love to have a legit way of turning down the PWS while off pavement, but I’d never consider even that with kids around. I say that because, while I don’t have kids, I was a kid, and I remember doing things I’d NEVER do as an adult because I now have a better idea of how many ways things can go wrong.

I imagine a kid crawling under a Rivian raised to off-road or highest to check out what’s underneath, hiding, or just taking advantage of a cool shady spot. Without a crazy hot exhaust system to keep kids from considering it, I could see this happening especially since with kid logic they might not consider that the driver could turn the wheels so being “safe” in the center isn’t a guarantee. It’s not like surround view cameras would help in this situation, either.

As bad as it would be to run over someone in your driveway or a parking lot where emergency services are minutes away, it would be way worse to do it where you don’t even have cell coverage and you’re totally on your own.

Even with a working PWS, I will probably need to get in the habit of looking under the vehicle before moving it when it has been sitting outside. The under-body camera on the Hummer would make this a lot easier.

 

[Iwannarivian]

I guess it depends on what we’re doing off-road and who is around. I would love to have a legit way of turning down the PWS while off pavement, but I’d never consider even that with kids around. I say that because, while I don’t have kids, I was a kid, and I remember doing things I’d NEVER do as an adult because I now have a better idea of how many ways things can go wrong.

I imagine a kid crawling under a Rivian raised to off-road or highest to check out what’s underneath, hiding, or just taking advantage of a cool shady spot. Without a crazy hot exhaust system to keep kids from considering it, I could see this happening especially since with kid logic they might not consider that the driver could turn the wheels so being “safe” in the center isn’t a guarantee. It’s not like surround view cameras would help in this situation, either.

As bad as it would be to run over someone in your driveway or a parking lot where emergency services are minutes away, it would be way worse to do it where you don’t even have cell coverage and you’re totally on your own.

Even with a working PWS, I will probably need to get in the habit of looking under the vehicle before moving it when it has been sitting outside. The under-body camera on the Hummer would make this a lot easier.

You must live next some pretty weird kids! For reference, I have 4 of my own, and none of them would think about laying under a vehicle…

On the PWS sound helping…if said kid was under the car…by the time the sound starts playing, isn’t the car already moving? if so, its not much, if any, help in that situation!

Lastly, yes we get more wise and conservative as we get older…”what doesn’t kill us, makes us wiser” but if we over thought everything we do, we wouldn’t do ANYTHING!?

 

[Yellow Buddy]

For those wanting it disabled off-road, at least here in Colorado many of the trails are designated county roads or fire roads. And if a way, short of disconnecting the speaker, is provided...people will do it. Having been around pre-PWS Teslas like the Roadster, you will not hear them coming...it's unnerving how quiet they are at low speed.

I scare the living daylights out of people with my Model S and Model X all the time. It's mildly amusing when you sneak up on someone.

You know what's not mildly amusing? Being stuck by a pack of road bikers who are spread across a lane cycling at 20mph on a 50mph one lane road who can't hear me. Yes, I could honk but a lot of times I forget I'm silent and just get pissed off that they wont get out of the way. And then when I finally remember to honk, it's usually an angry honk with some oomphasis on it.

I'll take the PWS please. It'll also let me know when my kids are stealing my car.

 

[SoCal Rob]

You must live next some pretty weird kids! For reference, I have 4 of my own, and none of them would think about laying under a vehicle…

On the PWS sound helping…if said kid was under the car…by the time the sound starts playing, isn’t the car already moving? if so, its not much, if any, help in that situation!

Lastly, yes we get more wise and conservative as we get older…”what doesn’t kill us, makes us wiser” but if we over thought everything we do, we wouldn’t do ANYTHING!?

I'm not saying I know any kids personally who would do this, but I certainly saw kids do equally dumb things growing up. It's unlikely that kids would go under an ICE vehicle with a typical suspension because even less-aware kids would shy away from the hot exhaust as they get close and there typically isn't enough room under the vehicle anyway. WIth over 14" of clearance under a Rivian at max height, it seems possible to me, especially when I consider I used to hide under my bed as a kid playing hide and seek. The bed rails were less than 12" off the ground.

I think the PWS starts when the car is in a drive or reverse mode, even if the vehicle isn't moving. While it's true that the PWS might not be enough to save a kid lacking common sense from their own actions, it certainly improves the odds versus not having a fully-functioning PWS.

I really don't expect this to be huge issue. Probably a lower incidence than adults accidentally leaving kids in cars during the summer. If I had kids I wouldn't disable the rear seat occupancy warning system either. In both cases the annoying noise seems worth the potential benefit to a parent.

I get that I'm probably more focused on not actively defeating rules put in place for safety. I'm not disabling the PWS, or seatbelt warning, or even using non-compliant lighting on roads. I don't have kids, but the fact that I'm considering the welfare of other people's kids doesn't seem like a bad thing.

 

[CharonPDX]

man what a waste....owning a jeep

Specifically the one with angry eyes.

 

[Gavinmcc]

As for the noise maker...I'll have to see for myself. The Bolt isn't bad. My wife's RAV4 backing up sounds like the tabernacle choir.
I prefer making our world less noisy so people can hear than more noise that people ignore. People with hearing and vision problems know to be cautious, it's the people with normal sight, but looking at their phone, and normal hearing, but have headphones on, that are at most risk and they hear and see nothing anyways.
That and most of my cars and trucks have been stick and I would coast in neutral all the time and was as silent as any electric car.
But whatever. I know which fuse to take out for my Bolt, but haven't done it. Likely won't mess with my R1T. But one of the things I love about my electric motorcycles has been how they move with nature so beautifully.

 

[Grandizer52]

my azure built in 2012, makes no noise...guess cause it's a utility van they figure for abduction, keep it quiet

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