Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING]

[electruck]

That’s quite an exaggeration. Their operating cash flows are nowhere near a company like Apple but I believe are still in the $2-3 billion range per quarter.

And FSD beta is the most impressive piece of innovation that could impact many peoples lives in a positive way if they can get it to work. I sure hope they do.

Make of it what you will.

https://electrek.co/2022/06/15/elon...ference-between-tesla-worth-a-lot-or-nothing/

Edit: I too hope they make it work but, as impressive as it is, FSD is still a long way from being truly autonomous.

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[R1Sky Business]

And everyone has at least one opinion about that which explains why toilet paper is still in such short supply

Is that an opinion?

 

[Acoustic71]

Is that an opinion?

Yeah, it was. What I should have said was that I have little tolerance these days for folks across the spectrum that devolve complex issues into catch-phrase word salad for the "gotcha" points. I may do that here on occasion, but it is typically meant as sarcasm. I have little interest in throwing down over it. I did enough of that for the jarheads back in the day.

 

[SASSquatch]

Are you really arguing that EVs and clean energy have no private sector incentive? What's the most valuable auto company in the world right now?

Your statement is not as relevant as you think it is. The value of an auto company doesn't translate to EV adoption. A pitifully low percentage of vehicle sales (3.4%) were EVs in 2021.

In order for us to stave off an irreversible climate catastrophe we must accelerate the adoption of EVs and reduce the number of ICE vehicles on the road. That requires massive incentives for the public to embrace, and make financially viable, that transformation.

 

[astonius]

Your statement is not as relevant as you think it is. The value of an auto company doesn't translate to EV adoption. A pitifully low percentage of vehicle sales (3.4%) were EVs in 2021.

In order for us to stave off an irreversible climate catastrophe we must accelerate the adoption of EVs and reduce the number of ICE vehicles on the road. That requires massive incentives for the public to embrace, and make financially viable, that transformation.

You can incentivize, pray, cross your fingers and toes, and none of that will change the capacity equation.

 

[Zoidz]

There's a POSSIBLE clue hidden in the wording regarding the tax credit - it says "The full EV tax credit will be available to individuals reporting adjusted gross incomes of $150,000 or less, $300,000 for joint filers."

KEYWORD: FULL

Some tax credits are called Phase Out tax credits where if you are over the limit, there is a formula that decreases the credit as your income increases. For example, for every $1000 over the limit, $100 is deducted from the tax credit.

Here's how it works for the child tax credit:

• Eligibility: Families with MAGIs less than $75,000 for single taxpayers, $112,500 for heads of household and $150,000 for married couples filing jointly were eligible for a full 2021 credit of $3,600 for each child under 6 and $3,000 for children under 18. (You may have received half of your available credit as monthly advance payments from July to December 2021.)
• Phase-out range: If your 2021 income exceeded the limits listed above, your child tax credit would be reduced by $50 for every $1,000 of income over the limit. A single mom who earned $80,000, for example, would receive a tax credit of $2,750 for her qualifying middle schooler: $3,000 - ($50 x 5) = $2,750.

 

[SASSquatch]

You can incentivize, pray, cross your fingers and toes, and none of that will change the capacity equation.

Capacity is irrelevant if you can't continue to accelerate demand past an incredibly small, and at this point insignificant, subset of drivers.

 

[Sully151]

Ok, I don’t get it. I live in SoCal. We own a house, have two kids, and make nowhere near $300k.
I guess we don’t splurge… except for the Rivian.

 

[astonius]

Capacity is irrelevant if you can't continue to accelerate demand past an incredibly small, and at this point insignificant, subset of drivers.

Currently demand is clearly and significantly outstripping supply. Why are so many of you denying this reality?

 

[SASSquatch]

Currently demand is clearly and significantly outstripping supply. Why are so many of you denying this reality?

That is because supply is being impacted by pandemic induced global supply chain disruptions that have contributed to massive inflation. A perfect time to institute income caps to a credit which is designed to offset the higher cost of something you are trying to incentivize people to buy.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Lots of people don't understand this. $7500 can be a lot for 300k joint earners in MANY parts of the US. It is for me in Socal. Not saying it will stop me from buying the truck, but it's part of the reason I put down my deposit, for sure. Luckily I think I'll slide in right under and still be okay. Maybe I'll see the truck in 2022 but that is fairly wishful thinking.

As September 21 preorder, I'm really pulling for you to take delivery this year. I hope I can be right behind you. If this bill passes, I hope that Rivian will let anyone with a late 22 delivery window the opportunity to sign purchase agreement before the year is out so we can still get the tax rebate.

 

[SASSquatch]

Currently demand is clearly and significantly outstripping supply. Why are so many of you denying this reality?

You are confounding pandemic induced supply constraints with market demand directed supply constraints.

Go to a GM dealer and ask for a Chevy Bolt. You will leave the dealership with one the same day.

 

[astonius]

You are confounding pandemic induced supply constraints with market demand directed supply constraints.

Go to a GM dealer and ask for a Chevy Bolt. You will leave the dealership with one the same day.

Ah yes, I recall all those EVs rotting away on lots before the pandemic

 

[SASSquatch]

The other thing here that is aggravating, and makes me think this legislation was heavily influenced by Ford, GM, and Tesla, is it absolutely harms a new EV manufacturer like RIVIAN.

Rivian hasn't even come close to exhausting the standard, no income or price cap credit of $7,500 for it's first 200K vehicles but other manufacturers have. They benefited from that, but RIVIAN won't if this becomes law.

The legislation should take effect AFTER the 200K credits are exhausted so that it isn't giving preferential treatment to anyone.

Meanwhile - RIVIAN needs to provide reservation holders the option to confirm and get locked into (with an easy break out option) a sales order so that for those of us who are not going to take delivery until sometime in 2023, we can benefit from the $7,500 tax credit (current) before the legislation takes effect (if it takes effect with these caps).

 

[TexasBob]

The other thing here that is aggravating, and makes me think this legislation was heavily influenced by Ford, GM, and Tesla, is it absolutely harms a new EV manufacturer like RIVIAN.

And it absolutely kills someone like Fisker whose vehicles suddenly became completely ineligible because they are being produced in Austria (at the Magna-Steyr plant). Definitely designed to advantage the big three US automakers (GM/Ford/Tesla).

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