Max Pack delayed to 2024 according to configurator / email ?

[Nsblifer]

I’m starting to have my doubts that they’ll honor our pre-order pricing in 2024 for the Max pack. They’re are in no way obligated.

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[intimidator]

I’m starting to have my doubts that they’ll honor our pre-order pricing in 2024 for the Max pack. They’re are in no way obligated.

Now that would suck.

Especially since they have honored the pricing for the large pack buyers.

 

[Monkey]

I got a reasonable explanation around why it is taking so long back in April when I did a 1st Mile drive (I was originally a Max Pack preorder, but decided to switch). The issue is charging speeds. What the R&D department needs to figure out is how to make the Max pack economical from a charge time perspective. As it currently stands, with 0-20% and 80-100% being at a much slower rate, you are essentially no worse off stopping more frequently with the Large Pack battery because the extra ~20kwh at the slower speeds will greatly increase your charging time.

Well, yeah, duh... 30% larger battery means 30% more time to charge, but it's not quite so simple as the front and back ends of the charge curve are terribly slow and compounded by the larger size of the Max Pack. I think what many people don't get, even Rivian it seems, is that many of us are aware of this and still want the larger battery for all the other benefits it provides. I need to be able occasionally drive longer distances in sub-zero temperatures. I sometimes need to do that pulling a trailer. I want to take this truck camping and not go, "ah, my battery says I'm down to 40%... I'd better pack out and go charge so I don't get stranded."

For daily use in and around down the available large pack is more than adequate. It just amazes me that for an "Adventure Lifestyle Truck" with much off-road functionality and appeal, that they are not scrambling to launch the 400+ mile pack. I think there's more to this than charge rates/ times... That's serious weak sauce, IMO. For me the delay only makes sense if Rivian is trying to give it their best shot to have an edge over the upcoming 400+ mile trucks from others. They've been focused on designing and building their own motors and working on many of their own battery developments and better charging tech. Batteries are not as constrained as they were 6+ months ago. There's no reason they can't deliver a Max Pack R1T now with the current tech and people will still buy it and find it useful even if charge times are a good bit longer. Nope, I'm thinking there's quite a bit more to it....

 

[jclicky]

I'd be shocked if it's anything but, in particular the 800v bit given the huge battery. Charging 180kwh on 400v could be painful. In fact, I suspect they are related, and the delay is owing to expected completion of the dual motor/Enduro development (all dual motor also now 2024). The in house motors are more compact, providing more room for batteries.

Also, in the Munro YT video on the motors they (at ~19:00) covered the fact that Rivian’s Bosch Motor solution involves a single-Rivian inverter housing running inverter ”operation” to each of the side-by-side motors (in the quad-motor setup).

However, Tesla’s inverter solution is 1-inverter-per-motor; this allows for Tesla to scale their total builds for far faster quantities/efficiencies/cost-savings & they can deploy unique motor deployments without a new inverter supply-chain per motor setup (dual vs. quad); they don’t need different components or different tooling for each dual or quad-motor design on the assembly this way (~19:00 mark):


The 1-inverter for each of the two motors at the axel model that Rivian adopted was probably necessary for them to do in-house engine design for the Enduro motors, but it handicapped them here: they are locked into to the Quad-motor assembly with their current supply of inverters, so some Quad-motor max pack orders are quoted as early as 2023 (I think I saw these on Reddit somewhere? Or are those ONLY the dual-motor Enduros that got late 2023 timeframe quotes today? someone correct me here if I have that wrong).

Anyway, fascinating implications of otherwise routine design choices that might have seemed opportune when they originally roadmapped their entire product line.

 

[ads75]

...so when my R1T gets delivered in 2026, will Rivian still be honoring the pre-March pricing?

Are they legally obligated to?

I'd be willing to bet at some point they kill the pre 3/1 order prices. Will it make people upset, yes. Is the economy much different than March 2022, yes. They may not move people to the current price points, but if they raised pre-3/1 prices by 10%, that is still a decent deal. Not as great, but not awful. They do need to balance customer goodwill and their ability to survive.

 

[kizamybute']

Certainly for some, the max pack will be preferred. If you live in a cold environment, then the extra capacity will be useful. If you tow a lot, especially more than 50+ miles one way, then an EV probably isn't your best option anyway. But, for the rest of you, that live in typical climate areas, I personally think the max pack is unnecessary. I had originally configured my truck with it. But, that was more based on my experience with Tesla for 9 years and them never getting anywhere near the rated range figures in "real world" driving. Having now taken a few road trips and experienced the Rivian for nearly 5 months, I am more than pleased that I saved $10,000 on the upgrade. Sure, there will always be some circumstances that pop up where having more range could be useful, but for 99% of my needs, probably, 99.8%, I have no need to carry the extra weight around. The Rivian charges plenty fast enough. My charging stops are at least 15-30 minutes less on the same road trips as they were in my Tesla's. And, at least with the 21 inch wheels, this thing actually gets pretty darn close to the range it says it will. I'm able to travel notably further with the truck than I was in my Model S, despite my Model S telling me I had 370+/- miles in range.

Point being, think about what you'll be using your truck for. For most, you probably don't have a need for the max pack. The large pack and its range will serve 99% of most driver's needs without any sacrifice. Knowing that, and the fact that it really does get around 300 miles in real world range, think about if you really need it. Is it worth putting off delivery of your truck for at least another year? Is it worth the extra $10,000? Knowing what I know now, I would have chosen the Large pack to begin with. My bladder usually can't last more than 300 miles anyway!

Thus, there's actually a benefit to the smaller battery, being that it charges faster toward the bottom end of the battery than it does when starting charging at 30% or more. So, I save time charging as well. If you are one that typically goes more than 300 miles without stopping and that extra 100 miles means something to you, then maybe it's worth the wait. But, I think for a large majority of owners, they'll find that they really didn't have a need for the extra range.

 

[IdahoNativeNate]

All too clearly. That's why I didn't configure a Launch Edition, but rather the Max Pack. Not only did I want the larger battery anyway, but it was going to be first.

Rivian is becoming the poser of promises. My faith in their survival falls daily. I think they capitalized on press but are pulling a fast one by dropping all the features that made them truly unique.

When the recession hits will be interesting to see how many reservations drop. Interest rates being so high can't be helping... all the design compromises are enough to make me keep my cash for other purposes...

 

[SomervilleR1T]

Oof. Dislike. Just got the update, myself. My kingdom for an EV work truck from any manufacturer sometime in 2023. Bueller? Bueller?

Oof. Dislike. Just got the update, myself. My kingdom for an EV work truck from any manufacturer sometime in 2023. Bueller? Bueller?

Take a look at this video specifically when he talks about changing the approach he takes to distance between charging. You may not actually need Max Pack. Take a look.

 

[evhelphub]

Oh my, who could have seen this coming? Another vaguely worded email announcing an indefinite delay and providing no information on pricing? I'm shocked!

Bad news Friday strikes again. How many weeks is a row is this?

 

[Marchin_MTB]

Earlier this spring I spoke with someone - off the record - who had been at Rivian for at least 5 years. He told me that if you want to actually get the truck, don't wait for the Max. Other than a test mule here and there, they haven't done much with them yet. The at-the-time estimate of 2023 deliveries he believed was just the temporary "kick the can down the road" placeholder for Max packs before they could kick the can a little harder. Looks like he was right. Hopefully there's a chance the Max pack benefits from some different architecture and battery tech.

I switched to a Large pack, got my truck, and recently got nearly 350mi on a single charge of freeway driving so I was happy with that.

With 21” tires and fair conditions, I have seen efficiencies consistent with range in the 350mi neighborhood as well. I heard others on the forums report similar ballparks in conserve. Rivian has improved efficiency somewhat with OTA’s and they may continue to squeeze more out of the packs that are already on the road. I know that’s no consolation prize for those waiting for the Max but it’s something.

 

[Riviandog]

This now shows up in the configurator and I have a Jan-Dec 2024 delivery window.

Also got this email from Rivian a bit ago. I specifically calls out the Dual Motor + Max Pack as being available Summer 2023.

Been waiting since November 2018. I don't think the max-pack will ever be delivered. My guess is they anticipate most pre-order holders will change to large pack or drop reservations. They will then announce max-pack will no longer be an option due to low customer demand. They will save tons on potential lost costs. THERE WAS NEVER AN INTENT TO DELIVER THIS PRODUCT. Everything published about this product has been one disappointment after another- the big lie.

 

[zefram47]

Been waiting since November 2018. I don't think thr max-pack will ever be delivered. My guess is they anticipate most pre-order holders will change to large pack or drop reservations. They will then announce max-pack will no longer be an option due to low customer demand. They will save tons on potential lost costs. THERE WAS NEVER AN INTENT TO DELIVER THIS PRODUCT. Everything published about this product has been one disappointment after another- the big lie.

The optimist in me thinks this isn't the case. GM is bringing out 2 400+ mile trucks and supposedly the Cybertruck is still coming with similar range. Rivian will need to have max pack to compete with them. As far as development challenges, there's good reason to assume Rivian doesn't want to release a 400V truck with a 180 kWh pack due to slower charging times. If you look at the Hummer EV, it's capable of 350 kW charging with a 212 kWh battery. Being limited to 220 kW for a very short period of time wouldn't be great when at least the GM offerings will be 800V and over 300 kW. We also know that Rivian plans to release the Dual Motor + Max Pack configuration by summer 2023, which means 800V and in-house Enduro motors. We also know from past quarterly investor calls that Rivian has been testing the Enduro motors / drive units for around six months now in the EDVs in a single motor configuration. So it's probably safe to assume they don't have any two motor Enduro drive units in testing yet, given the new 2024 timeline. If they announce more details on the Dual Motor Max Pack truck and it happens to have a locker at least in the rear, I'd consider trying to change to that configuration if it meant getting a truck sooner. But given that I want max pack to tow, I'm not currently willing to drop back to a large pack.

 

[R1Sky Business]

This now shows up in the configurator and I have a Jan-Dec 2024 delivery window.

Also got this email from Rivian a bit ago. I specifically calls out the Dual Motor + Max Pack as being available Summer 2023.

Everything is fluid

 

[R1Sky Business]

Looks like GM will be first with a 400 mile truck. Maybe first 2.

Don't count your chickens yet

 

[R1Sky Business]

What the royal F, Rivian?!

This almost certainly means I don't even get the chance to buy another Rivian.
And R1T only?
… then make the R1S in the full length wheelbase.

By 2024 – pardon my tmesis, but – it's a-whole-nother ballgame of electric vehicle technology and there's just no way of knowing what technology will be in an EV battery. It won't be a 180kWh slab of 2170s or probably even 4680's, it's going to be LFP or any one of the "this changes everything" technologies that gets announced seemingly every week for the last year.

Far out.

Has Rivian quiet-quit the R1 (and all of their consumer vehicles including the R2?) in favor of delivery vans … and electric bicycles?

I'm too miffed to correct the punctuation of my post!

Don't forget about mopeds

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