It's July 1, who get's a delivery this month?

[DucRider]

I'm a super-early depositor on F-150 Lightning and its most likely going to be my first electric truck next Spring.

Assuming, of course, that Ford does not run into supply chain issues like they have on their current ICE F150 (and just about everything else). Getting the backlog of those out the door could easily take priority and delay the production/delivery of the Lightning models. Even getting the equipment to set up the line for the Lightning could be problematic.
The entire auto industry is having issues and any delivery dates should be considered as moving goalposts at this point.

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[flabyboy]

my Rivian enthusiasm balloon is running out-of-air fast. just visited family and had to "tell a story" about Rivian since so many heard me rave about it for well over a year now. Kept getting asked when's that electric truck of yours going to arrive?

Honestly the best answer now is that I'm a super-early depositor on F-150 Lightning and its most likely going to be my first electric truck next Spring.

I just can’t see buying that Ford instead of a Rivian, even if it’s an extra year wait. Just think it’s unpleasant to look at in comparison. When it’s all said and done the price will be similar the high end trims. To each there own, but I personally will wait for something I really want. Especially at the prices they are asking

 

[RWerksman]

Kinda going off on a tangent here, but I was watching a video on YouTube earlier today:




Sandy Munro was talking specifically about why the ID.4 doesn't have a frunk where the comparable Mach E does. He starts going in a bit of a tangent about how engineers need to be consistently focusing on customer needs, not his or her individual needs.

"The customer is paying all of the big bucks, and it's why we have a job."

I found it to be extremely relevant to the conversation that we're having here because his point isn't about just engineering - it can be said about any part of the automobile industry and beyond. He is, at heart, advocating for the customer first mindset. It's been proven over and over that the result of this approach is better engagement and more profitability. Here is a PWC whitepaper about the subject. Literally the first sentence from it is:

"Give customers a great experience and they’ll buy more, be more loyal and share their experience with friends."

Judging by this thread and all of the others very much like it, that is clearly not happening here. Late '18 deposit holders are particularly hard hit. With not one, or two, or three, but four (and likely five or more) delays to production. Plus decontenting features like the 180 degree tailgate and lidar. Plus a slightly more loose roll-out schedule that can be perceived as devaluing their reservation timing. Plus a cherry on top of slow and incomplete communications.

While none of this above may be make-or-break, it's clearly not, "Great". For me, it's the minimum acceptable product - nothing more. It does not inspire loyalty. Any shared experiences with my fiends has, frankly, been somewhat negative.

Yes, we all know there have been challenges along the way. Large ones like Covid and a global parts shortage have been mentioned over and over and over again as a way to deflect the responsibility of Rivian to be customer centric. Whataboutism has been the go-to of apologists ad nauseam.

I say that every challenge is an opportunity. For instance, carefully crafted messaging could have been (and maybe still can be?) crafted to engage the customer audience and excite them about the product that will be delivered. Small featurettes could have been made touting features. Think about super in-depth items about the below released on a weekly basis:

• Gear tunnel
• Bluetooth speaker
• Leather / fabrics
• Frunk
• etc.

Stuff like that can interspersed with "Along for the ride" articles featuring the "Road to production" featurettes about assembly line construction, employment numbers and functions, service building completions, trials and tribulations in securing components, etc. We could have been all in this together!

But we're not. We're here. Sniping at each other. Being trolly. Consistently reminding ourselves that the rest of the world is having issues, so Rivian must surely be having them too, and that's OK I guess. Contemplating the fact that if Rivian can't manage expectations or deliver a vehicle on time now, what the prospects look like for long term ownership.

Honestly, it feels a lot like Palm and WebOS. The product was so promising. So exciting. So disappointing when it fizzled out. Only here were talking about a product that is much more complex and much, much more expensive.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Rivian is more Tesla than Fisker because being a Fisker early adopter looked morbid.

 

[888tom888]

what's more important. Get it right whenever that happens or get it fast? As a Tesla owner, Elon seems to shoot for get it fast and we will fix it later. I happen to be a lucky Tesla owner, as I have had no problems two years in. I'm so excited to get my R1S so I'm willing to wait. At this stage of the process, I believe most LE people would love some form of communication from RIvian. Talk to us. Treat us like adults and with respect and I believe most of us will follow for the ride. Stay silent and forums like this will run rampant with whatever b.s. people have to say or think. In the big picture, life is about the journey. so why not sit back and enjoy the journey?

 

[flabyboy]

Communication would be nice. So would patience. Covid really set the world back hard. You see it everywhere. When you have to wait 8 months for a fridge or sofa, that is not normal. People just need to take a step back and think about what they really want. There are lots of electric vehicles coming out. Many of which won’t be in your hands for a good year yet because they are either sold out or behind on production. ?‍ It’s not just Rivian. I’ve been looking at the BMW i4 M50. There are absolutely zero details on release date and trims. Genesis has been teasing the GV60. Been waiting almost a year to see that one. Tesla truck, semi, roadster. How long ago were their prototypes shown off??

 

[Dark-Fx]

Communication would be nice. So would patience. Covid really set the world back hard. You see it everywhere. When you have to wait 8 months for a fridge or sofa, that is not normal. People just need to take a step back and think about what they really want. There are lots of electric vehicles coming out. Many of which won’t be in your hands for a good year yet because they are either sold out or behind on production. ?‍ It’s not just Rivian. I’ve been looking at the BMW i4 M50. There are absolutely zero details on release date and trims. Genesis has been teasing the GV60. Been waiting almost a year to see that one. Tesla truck, semi, roadster. How long ago were their prototypes shown off??

I used to work in automotive and new plant projects would always end up behind schedule even without supply chain problems. Ford, GM, Chrysler, didn't matter who it was. I have to believe most of the people complaining have never worked in manufacturing, period.

 

[hed]

I used to work in automotive and new plant projects would always end up behind schedule even without supply chain problems. Ford, GM, Chrysler, didn't matter who it was. I have to believe most of the people complaining have never worked in manufacturing, period.

You're right, just like most of the people who complain about service or food in a restaurant have never been a manager or chef. I do not think one has to work in a particular industry to be able to have a valid critique.

I assume what you are really saying is those non-industry folks would have a better understanding and wouldn't complain. I disagree, I can understand why they may be behind, what I cannot agree with is the radio silence. You have people like me who have been on a reservation list for almost 3 years and we want to know a realistic time frame or some other type of information to help us have true expectations as to the when.

 

[Dark-Fx]

we want to know a realistic time frame or some other type of information to help us have true expectations as to the when.

The last project I was on was the one that convinced me to start working elsewhere. I was working in a plant in Europe. Was supposed to be a 2-3 month assignment. Ended up there for around 7 months total. My last month of travel there I was working 70-80 hour weeks, but we weren't able to work on Sundays so it was on 6 days a week. It was already past the second deadline of SoP. Our stuff was 99% functional by that point, but there were issues integrating with the plant's systems and the systems that other companies were responsible for. A lot of my time was spent working on those integrations and just debugging out any potential issues so I wouldn't have to go back again.

Two weeks before the first SoP it was looking like our stuff was on schedule. When asked by the OEM we stated that was where we stood. I ended up spending a lot more time than I should have working out showstopping bugs with equipment other companies were responsible for. A lot of my time was also spent manually getting the first run through all of our systems so that they could do destructive testing on them to find problems. There's a LOT of behinds the scenes stuff that makes it really difficult to give a solid timeline. In industrial automation, production is a huge struggle until you finally get everything right. And I mean everything has to be right.

As an aside, I actually got kicked out of the plant for being at work too long during that last stay, and then when I showed up in the morning they didn't want to let me in because I hadn't been away from work long enough. The Plant President came by later that day to talk to me about it. Was pretty surreal and not something that would have happened in the US.

 

[TessP100D]

I really haven't thought about but Tesla has managed to change new vehicle announcements into an Apple type of event where you see the new iPhone, iPad and perhaps one more thing. Only Apple sells you that stuff 2 weeks to 2 months later.

It's crazy that these events drive such anticipation and I wonder what negative consequences they may present to cars sales in the term preceding that actual delivery.

I know that I've been suckered into this cycle of false hope 4 times. I have deposits on CT, Lightening, Hummer and just recently added Rivian to that list. Shame on me for being so gullible.

Exactly. It’s a little crazy now.

I mean it used to be you wanted a new car, you went to the dealer, picked one and drove it Home.

Tesla is so bad as to the deliveries that you have no idea when you will get the car, so you can’t plan your trade in, or sale, or loan or anything. Then out of the blue they call you to come get your car today. If you can’t. They say well you might have to wait until a few months besides tnrynwant to give your car to somebody else. That’s crazy.

 

[RWerksman]

I used to work in automotive and new plant projects would always end up behind schedule even without supply chain problems. Ford, GM, Chrysler, didn't matter who it was. I have to believe most of the people complaining have never worked in manufacturing, period.

I was the implementation PM for multi-million dollar healthcare robotics systems that had a significant permitting and construction component to them. That was hard. Automotive is much harder, no doubt.

That said, could you imagine the blow-back Ford would have if they pushed the F150 Lightning delivery dates back from Spring 2022 to Fall 2022, then Summer 2023, then Summer 2024? How about if Tesla pushes back the Cybertruck from Fall 2021 to Spring 2022, then Summer 2023, the again to Summer 2024? All while slightly decontenting each and topped off with crap communications? It would be crazy and potentially catastrophic for each.

 

[TessP100D]

what's more important. Get it right whenever that happens or get it fast? As a Tesla owner, Elon seems to shoot for get it fast and we will fix it later. I happen to be a lucky Tesla owner, as I have had no problems two years in. I'm so excited to get my R1S so I'm willing to wait. At this stage of the process, I believe most LE people would love some form of communication from RIvian. Talk to us. Treat us like adults and with respect and I believe most of us will follow for the ride. Stay silent and forums like this will run rampant with whatever b.s. people have to say or think. In the big picture, life is about the journey. so why not sit back and enjoy the journey?

Well said.

 

[jjwolf120]

That said, could you imagine the blow-back Ford would have if they pushed the F150 Lightning delivery dates back from Spring 2022 to Fall 2022, then Summer 2023, then Summer 2024? How about if Tesla pushes back the Cybertruck from Fall 2021 to Spring 2022, then Summer 2023, the again to Summer 2024? All while slightly decontenting each and topped off with crap communications? It would be crazy and potentially catastrophic for each.

As I recall, Ford did push back the delivery date of the MachE. This year Tesla pushed back the delivery date of the revised Model S, Model X and canceled the Plaid+. Previously, they pushed back the delivery date of the initial Model 3s. They are highly likely not to deliver any Cybertrucks in 2021. There is a good chance, I think, that Ford will be late with the F-150 Lightning.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

In 5 years nobody going to rivian.com and ordering an R1T or R1S will be concerned about the experience of a 2018 pre-order holder.

The ~5000-10000 LE holders are also not representative of the eventual buyers of Rivian's vehicles, which will vastly outstrip that number of pre-order customers anyway.

Point being - "Great" isn't getting measured at launch. If it were, Tesla would have cratered like an asteroid.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I was the implementation PM for multi-million dollar healthcare robotics systems that had a significant permitting and construction component to them. That was hard. Automotive is much harder, no doubt.

That said, could you imagine the blow-back Ford would have if they pushed the F150 Lightning delivery dates back from Spring 2022 to Fall 2022, then Summer 2023, then Summer 2024? How about if Tesla pushes back the Cybertruck from Fall 2021 to Spring 2022, then Summer 2023, the again to Summer 2024? All while slightly decontenting each and topped off with crap communications? It would be crazy and potentially catastrophic for each.

Preordering vehicles months or years before launch wasn't a thing that existed before Tesla started doing it. Hell, you wouldn't even hear much about new models until they were basically ready to produce them. It seems like an approach manufacturers are taking towards EVs because they still have no idea how well they are going to sell. I'm not at all surprised Rivian needs more time than they kept anticipating, and I would be surprised if even Ford was able to keep their current timeline.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Point being - "Great" isn't getting measured at launch. If it were, Tesla would have cratered like an asteroid.

Tesla had two unique benefits:

1. They were the only real EV choice for a significant period of time.
2. They were the first (or most prominent, at the time) to create/have many of these problems.

People put up with Tesla because they had to. Tesla is going to struggle as more startups begin deliveries and legacy automakers are now delivering compelling EV products. Also, Tesla has exhausted a lot of people's patience, and I think the public's willingness to put up with shenanigans has been reduced, as a result.

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