UAW is coming after Rivian

[chrismc]

I am rabidly pro-union in almost every situation, except UAW. They are a cancer on American labor and industry that strangles innovation and success.

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[Gr8Barn]

UAW and other Unions are a dying breed. Good riddance. They have killed the automotive industry with their thugs and overpaid extortionists. They play upon the uneducated and unskilled. I think Rivian employees, like Tesla line employees are smart enough to see through the union sales pitch.

 

[R1TS]

The factory workers all get options in RIVN. I presume that a financial motivating factor for them. That is, they get paid reasonable wages/benefits + options on RIVN for possible big upside.

If they unionize, they’ll likely lose their options

Serious question: why do people hate auto unions so much? If the people in a union get paid more, then good for them.

Whereas, I don’t ever hear this much negativity towards unions in other fields, such as nursing, EMT, police, firefighters, teachers, pilots, NASA, local transportation and other government jobs, professional sports, etc.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Serious question: why do people hate auto unions so much? If the people in a union get paid more, then good for them.

Whereas, I don’t ever hear this much negativity towards unions in other fields, such as nursing, EMT, police, firefighters, teachers, pilots, NASA, local transportation and other government jobs, professional sports, etc.

Americans rely on their vehicles for transportation and the auto companies just pass the cost increases on to everyone who needs to buy a car directly. Most of the other unions don't directly affect people the same way. Plus the UAW has had a ton of corruption scandals in recent times.

 

[R1TS]

Americans rely on their vehicles for transportation and the auto companies just pass the cost increases on to everyone who needs to buy a car directly. Most of the other unions don't directly affect people the same way. Plus the UAW has had a ton of corruption scandals in recent times.

You don't think your property taxes go up due to school bonds that go to pay for teacher salary increases?

How about property tax increases due to local public services employed by people in unions?

I get mailers every year asking us to vote for bond measures to pay for a bunch of different things.

You don’t think healthcare costs go up in part due to higher wages of nurses and techs?

Postal rates haven’t gone up due to wage increases of the postal workers? You think there is no corruption in the USPS organization?

I think you need to look around more.

 

[Dark-Fx]

You don't think your property taxes go up due to school bonds that go to pay for teacher salary increases?

How about property tax increases due to local public services employed by people in unions?

You don’t think healthcare costs go up in part due to higher wages of nurses and techs?

Postal rates haven’t gone up due to wage increases of the postal workers? You think there is no corruption in the USPS organization?

I think you need to look around more.

It's perception of those things. I am not talking about me specifically.

For the record, I am lucky enough to sit on the side opposite of UAW representatives for contract negotiations. Because of that, I have no interest in getting off into the weeds on my own personal perception of them. The ones I have had to the pleasure of making a deal with are good people with good intentions.

 

[R1TS]

It's perception of those things. I am not talking about me specifically.

Yea, I dont know.

I’ll guarantee you that all those things I mentioned cost the average person a lot more EVERY year than any increase in the cost of the car that one would buy every 5-6 years due to unionization.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Serious question: why do people hate auto unions so much? If the people in a union get paid more, then good for them.

Whereas, I don’t ever hear this much negativity towards unions in other fields, such as nursing, EMT, police, firefighters, teachers, pilots, NASA, local transportation and other government jobs, professional sports, etc.

For me it's because there are two types of unions. The first type provide some benefit to the company. Usually by training and providing continuing education including industry and safety training. Think trade union. They have their own schools for training the workers during their apprenticeship. Usually tradesworkers need to have years long apprenticeships and the unions train their guys better and require more school than the non union shops. I've worked in both, I can speak to this personally.

The UAW is the other type. Their workers are basically just throwing a tantrum for money they don't really deserve because they aren't providing anything extra to a company. Do that long enough and you'll bleed the company dry. There's only so much cost that can be put into cars and still have them compete with overseas manufacturer's prices. Do you think China won't just flood us with cheap cars and take over our markets if the price gets high enough? That's not good for our economy is it?

UAW is going to kill the American auto industry, and that, in my opinion, the hate of them is deserved. Greed that will ruin our economy. We don't want to cede our economic power to China, they will make us pay for it. All those other things you mentioned can't just be outsourced to China so the higher prices won't get Chinese competitors that just take our market over.

 

[DuoRivians]

For me it's because there are two types of unions. The first type provide some benefit to the company. Usually by training and providing continuing education including industry and safety training. Think trade union. They have their own schools for training the workers during their apprenticeship. Usually tradesworkers need to have years long apprenticeships and the unions train their guys better and require more school than the non union shops. I've worked in both, I can speak to this personally.

The UAW is the other type. Their workers are basically just throwing a tantrum for money they don't really deserve because they aren't providing anything extra to a company. Do that long enough and you'll bleed the company dry. There's only so much cost that can be put into cars and still have them compete with overseas manufacturer's prices. Do you think China won't just flood us with cheap cars and take over our markets if the price gets high enough? That's not good for our economy is it?

UAW is going to kill the American auto industry, and that, in my opinion, the hate of them is deserved. Greed that will ruin our economy. We don't want to cede our economic power to China, they will make us pay for it. All those other things you mentioned can't just be outsourced to China so the higher prices won't get Chinese competitors that just take our market over.

OEMs are already manufacturing in Mexico and importing cars into the U.S. to avoid manufacturing unions.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Yea, I dont know.

I’ll guarantee you that all those things I mentioned cost the average person a lot more EVERY year than any increase in the cost of the car that one would buy every 5-6 years due to unionization.

Paychecks are a zero sum game. Everything you mentioned does take a chunk out. But for the most part, certain of those expenses are unavoidable. I want to buy affordable American made things. I want others to do the same thing. People are going to shop elsewhere on things they can and foreign built automobiles are getting a leg up on labor costs in the first place. So now as a nation, more of our GDP is getting exported because companies building cars in America can't do it competitively anymore. More American workers will be put out of a job.

Import tariffs don't completely solve the problem because ultimately the increased cost is still coming out of an American's wallet.

 

[joelster]

If Rivian's pay and benefits are competitive and they handle workplace incidents appropriately, I see no place for a union to come in "just because".

Are they? Do they?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Are they? Do they?

Was hoping someone else would be able to answer that. Can you? Will you?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

OEMs are already manufacturing in Mexico and importing cars into the U.S. to avoid manufacturing unions.

Now imagine what happens when US labor gets even more expensive. Then all those jobs go away, which crashes the price of labor due to the surplus of workers now looking for a job. So everyone who's in that lower tier of employment will take a hit to the pocketbook and ripples will be felt pretty far up the employment ladder because now these people who were spending money aren't so the retail sector all the way up the chain is going to take a hit. Not to mention most of those factory workers aren't going to be able to find any other job paying them the same amount with their qualifications which is going to mean reeducation for those who can or two entry level jobs working a million hours a week or a huge reduction in lifestyle.

Basically everyone loses thanks to UAW greed.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Are they? Do they?

Yes they do. They start at 20 dollars an hour plus benefits which in Normal, IL is a pretty good wage.

 

[DuoRivians]

Yes they do. They start at 20 dollars an hour plus benefits which in Normal, IL is a pretty good wage.

Rivian is also starting a vocational training program and paying them $20/hr while in school I believe. Then $25/hr upon completion

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ip-to-train-future-georgia-plant-staff.20612/

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