R1T Leasing Process Details - It's Complicated (Currently)

[VSG]

Trade-in: enter in your vehicle details and it gives you a number, which is non-negotiable. At this time you either have to accept the offer, decline the offer, or add a different vehicle to trade-in.

Most of your post seems to be about the trade in. This process is exactly the same for purchasing vs leasing, and I found it to be easy and quick. Just upload your info and get an offer. If you don't like their offer, don't take it. What could be easier? That's just what you do with Carvana etc. and in fact you probably already have offers from at least one company like that to compare to. Remember if you trade in a vehicle that reduces your purchase price and you end up paying much less in taxes on your new vehicle, so take that into account when you compare offers.

The rest of the post makes me think that Rivian has just inserted the lease-specific actions into the "payment method" step of the purchase process, with the rest of the process being the same as purchasing outright. Maybe that makes sense logically, and if you're getting a loan instead it *does* make sense because you can reject Rivian's *loan* offer and go with your own lender at this point, but with a lease you really don't have any options but Rivian so once you've started the process you no longer have a choice about your lease.

While I'm sure the guides etc. don't know the lease details off the top of their heads (this is a very new process after all), I'm sure they can get the details for you. Even most salesmen at dealerships can't tell you the lease details - you have to jump through all sorts of hoops just to get the numbers, and usually there's really only one guy at the dealership who does leases (in my limited experience).

I would not be comfortable committing to a lease without seeing the details first. I think they should be able to give you the basic numbers - I think I've seen everything but the money factor (which tells you the residual value), but the money factor is something that probably varies and they don't want to quote you a number that's going to change next week when you finally get around to leasing.

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[Golfer04]

Actually this is *exactly* what most EV manufacturers do - this is why the $7500 tax credit for commercial EV buyers (i.e. the lease company) is considered a loophole and a way to get around the income, vehicle price, and battery sourcing/assembly requirements that constrain the current consumer EV tax credit.

In practice, you do have to pay that first month of the lease and you do have to pay the lease fees etc., so you end up not getting the full $7,500 - you loose $1000 or more to fees and first month interest. But you can do this in many cases and save money.

However you really have to read the lease agreement and figure out the payoff value and crunch all the numbers, because some EV manufacturers will try to screw you and it will cost you thousands of dollars more by doing it this way, even with the $7,500 "credit".

I'm not sure who "most ev manufacturers" are who are doing leases. I work for the largest single pickup buyer in the United States because of our leasing program (we have a purchase advantage). I've probably leased a thousand pickup trucks for our commercial finance customers, and in that arena the most important thing is it being a tax lease. And there has to be symmetry on both sides. On those leases the early payoff is the sum of the lease payments PLUS any tax recapture the payoff causes us (because we claim various accelerated depr deductions). That isn't the case on an individual buyer who isn't going to deduct the lease payment.

 

[SANZC02]

Most of your post seems to be about the trade in. This process is exactly the same for purchasing vs leasing, and I found it to be easy and quick. Just upload your info and get an offer. If you don't like their offer, don't take it. What could be easier? That's just what you do with Carvana etc. and in fact you probably already have offers from at least one company like that to compare to. Remember if you trade in a vehicle that reduces your purchase price and you end up paying much less in taxes on your new vehicle, so take that into account when you compare offers.

The rest of the post makes me think that Rivian has just inserted the lease-specific actions into the "payment method" step of the purchase process, with the rest of the process being the same as purchasing outright. Maybe that makes sense logically, and if you're getting a loan instead it *does* make sense because you can reject Rivian's *loan* offer and go with your own lender at this point, but with a lease you really don't have any options but Rivian so once you've started the process you no longer have a choice about your lease.

While I'm sure the guides etc. don't know the lease details off the top of their heads (this is a very new process after all), I'm sure they can get the details for you. Even most salesmen at dealerships can't tell you the lease details - you have to jump through all sorts of hoops just to get the numbers, and usually there's really only one guy at the dealership who does leases (in my limited experience).

I would not be comfortable committing to a lease without seeing the details first. I think they should be able to give you the basic numbers - I think I've seen everything but the money factor (which tells you the residual value), but the money factor is something that probably varies and they don't want to quote you a number that's going to change next week when you finally get around to leasing.

Not sure where they live, they need to check their state rules on vehicle tax when purchasing.

California for instance taxes the full selling price and gives no credit for trade in value.

 

[ndmiller]

noone cares sorry

 

[VSG]

I'm not sure who "most ev manufacturers" are who are doing leases. I work for the largest single pickup buyer in the United States because of our leasing program (we have a purchase advantage). I've probably leased a thousand pickup trucks for our commercial finance customers, and in that arena the most important thing is it being a tax lease. And there has to be symmetry on both sides. On those leases the early payoff is the sum of the lease payments PLUS any tax recapture the payoff causes us (because we claim various accelerated depr deductions). That isn't the case on an individual buyer who isn't going to deduct the lease payment.

Well I was thinking about Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Subaru, etc. - the ones who, like Rivian, make vehicles that don't qualify for the full consumer EV tax credit of $7,500. But if the leasing part of their business buys the vehicle then leases it out to the consumer, the leasing business gets to take the $7,500 commercial EV tax credit (in the first year) and the leasing business can then choose to pass that $7,500 on to the consumer in the form of a reduced capitalized cost. The leasing business still makes their same money from the interest and fees, and the consumer gets a lower price for the vehicle, so in theory both win and there is nothing to recapture if the consumer pays of the loan early because the commercial EV tax credit doesn't depend on the length of the ownership.

 

[VSG]

On the Insurance front, I have never in over 3 decades and dozens of vehicles (4 and 2 wheel) ever insured the actual vehicle I was buying before taking delivery. I have insurance on 3 vehicles (one is the trade) and they denied the uploaded documents as it wasn't listing the Rivian. And since Rivian isn't financing the truck, why would Rivian care if It was specifically insured. Buying another vehicle brand next month and asked my SA, he said as long as I'm insured in GA that's all that matters to put on the plate.

I've never had to do it either, but as I said I didn't find it to be a big deal because I just told USAA the start date - I didn't have to pay for the coverage before the start date, but putting my R1T on my policy with my other cars allowed me to print an insurance card for my R1T before I received it.

I don't know why they require this, but be aware that your purchase is probably being made under Illinois state law which may have requirements different from what you're familiar with. Georgia doesn't allow Rivian to sell directly to consumers, so you're not buying your truck in Georgia.

"In 2015, Georgia changed state laws to block new, EV-only manufacturers from direct sales in the state. Georgia allows an exception for Tesla, which operates 5 manufacturer owned dealers in the state. This will prevent Rivian vehicles built in Georgia from being sold here in the state."
https://www.senate.ga.gov/committees/Documents/Rivian_Automotive_presentation.pdf
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1874178/000119312521289903/d157488ds1.htm

 

[t1000mb]

Most of your post seems to be about the trade in. This process is exactly the same for purchasing vs leasing, and I found it to be easy and quick. Just upload your info and get an offer. If you don't like their offer, don't take it. What could be easier? That's just what you do with Carvana etc. and in fact you probably already have offers from at least one company like that to compare to. Remember if you trade in a vehicle that reduces your purchase price and you end up paying much less in taxes on your new vehicle, so take that into account when you compare offers.

The rest of the post makes me think that Rivian has just inserted the lease-specific actions into the "payment method" step of the purchase process, with the rest of the process being the same as purchasing outright. Maybe that makes sense logically, and if you're getting a loan instead it *does* make sense because you can reject Rivian's *loan* offer and go with your own lender at this point, but with a lease you really don't have any options but Rivian so once you've started the process you no longer have a choice about your lease.

While I'm sure the guides etc. don't know the lease details off the top of their heads (this is a very new process after all), I'm sure they can get the details for you. Even most salesmen at dealerships can't tell you the lease details - you have to jump through all sorts of hoops just to get the numbers, and usually there's really only one guy at the dealership who does leases (in my limited experience).

I would not be comfortable committing to a lease without seeing the details first. I think they should be able to give you the basic numbers - I think I've seen everything but the money factor (which tells you the residual value), but the money factor is something that probably varies and they don't want to quote you a number that's going to change next week when you finally get around to leasing.

My issues boil down to this:
1. Give a non-refundable deposit
2. Then we tell you the rest of the important details

Yes, the trade-in experience has been different, making it weird. The bigger issue with it for me is that they apply all of the equity in the car I'm trading in, which I own, as a cap cost reduction. So sure, I can just choose not to do that but their inability to cut a check for the amount I don't want to put down is also unconventional.

I've never had that issue with any of the last 5 cars I bought and then traded in.

IMO, the steps should be:
1. We value your trade-in and make it clear upfront that all of the equity goes towards a cap cost reduction / down payment
2. You submit a lease application and we tell you all the things you need to know - money factor, residual, terms, etc
3. We show you your payment with and without trade-in
4. You then choose what to do
5. Once you have and accept all of the terms, then you put down a deposit to complete the order

The whole point is this process isn't transparent and requires you to make several key decisions before you have all of the facts. Maybe I'm different, but I don't make financial decisions without having all of the important information first.

EDIT: You have to submit proof of insurance for the Rivian BEFORE you even get to the financing package. Seriously, who came up with this?

 

[Golfer04]

Well I was thinking about Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Subaru, etc. - the ones who, like Rivian, make vehicles that don't qualify for the full consumer EV tax credit of $7,500. But if the leasing part of their business buys the vehicle then leases it out to the consumer, the leasing business gets to take the $7,500 commercial EV tax credit (in the first year) and the leasing business can then choose to pass that $7,500 on to the consumer in the form of a reduced capitalized cost. The leasing business still makes their same money from the interest and fees, and the consumer gets a lower price for the vehicle, so in theory both win and there is nothing to recapture if the consumer pays of the loan early because the commercial EV tax credit doesn't depend on the length of the ownership.

I hope it works that way, but can't believe that will last. Why wouldn't all those manufacturers just "lease" all production to the wholly owned affiliate, claim the tax credit and let the affiliate sell them at $6,000 (of the 7500) less? Sign me up if this is how it will work. Hope you are right.

 

[ndmiller]

I've never had to do it either, but as I said I didn't find it to be a big deal because I just told USAA the start date - I didn't have to pay for the coverage before the start date, but putting my R1T on my policy with my other cars allowed me to print an insurance card for my R1T before I received it.

Sorry another stupid update. Got my USAA insurance and uploaded the card yesterday. It was rejected this AM.

Not only does Rivian need the Insurance card PDF from USAA, but they need the email from USAA the insurance card PDF was on. SO I upload the email PDF and the card pdf, NOPE cannot upload two items in that space. Just replied with both to my guide and we'll see what happens.

 

[Eric9610]

My issues boil down to this:
1. Give a non-refundable deposit
2. Then we tell you the rest of the important details

Yes, the trade-in experience has been different, making it weird. The bigger issue with it for me is that they apply all of the equity in the car I'm trading in, which I own, as a cap cost reduction. So sure, I can just choose not to do that but their inability to cut a check for the amount I don't want to put down is also unconventional.

I've never had that issue with any of the last 5 cars I bought and then traded in.

IMO, the steps should be:
1. We value your trade-in and make it clear upfront that all of the equity goes towards a cap cost reduction / down payment
2. You submit a lease application and we tell you all the things you need to know - money factor, residual, terms, etc
3. We show you your payment with and without trade-in
4. You then choose what to do
5. Once you have and accept all of the terms, then you put down a deposit to complete the order

The whole point is this process isn't transparent and requires you to make several key decisions before you have all of the facts. Maybe I'm different, but I don't make financial decisions without having all of the important information first.

This process is no different than tesla except you know you can't buy at end. They don't show you details till you put a deposit down. All be it smaller but still the same.

The issue I am having right now is I want to change the milage for the lease from 12k to 15k but because I completed the financing section I can't and need the guide to unlock. Also, my guide is not very responsive and have sent several emails and calls related to other items with no luck!

 

[DuoRivians]

I think Rivian should either make the deposit refundable or disclose up front what a high quality credit lessee gets for MF and residual before $1000 payment

 

[t1000mb]

This process is no different than tesla except you know you can't buy at end. They don't show you details till you put a deposit down. All be it smaller but still the same.

The issue I am having right now is I want to change the milage for the lease from 12k to 15k but because I completed the financing section I can't and need the guide to unlock. Also, my guide is not very responsive and have sent several emails and calls related to other items with no luck!

That doesn't mean it's a logical or transparent system because that's what Tesla does.

The BMW dealership didn't require any of this steps in order for them to quote me on any of their various EVs.

 

[Cascadian]

I understand your frustration.
When I purchased there were tasks in the steps that contradicted what the guide had told me just a week before and that included the insurance.
Previous buying in WA state required only a valid comprehensive policy. The new vehicle was added to the policy only after taking car home.
Also, just when desperately wanted to clarify something with the guide, no response for 3 days. When confronted about this he confirmed that my emails and mails had been received.
Hopefully you will get through to your guide. Get them to roll back whatever needs to and to send you all the details you need.

 

[Riviot]

I'm not sure who "most ev manufacturers" are who are doing leases.

Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Subaru, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes....

I work for the largest single pickup buyer in the United States

GSA, is that you?? Where's my F150 Lightnings?! I asked for 4 and I've been a very good chief this year!

Why wouldn't all those manufacturers just "lease" all production to the wholly owned affiliate, claim the tax credit and let the affiliate sell them at $6,000 (of the 7500) less?

Some do just that...

Unrelated, they also tried to charge my wife a $5k markup. I told her to call 3 other dealers and ask their markups. Sure enough, first 2 said no market for Prime so she called back and said WTH and they dropped it.

Truly scumbag dealers. Please tell me you aren't part of that lot!

 

[irish26]

I think Rivian should either make the deposit refundable or disclose up front what a high quality credit lessee gets for MF and residual before $1000 payment

Speaking of high quality credit, what if someone with low credit applies and gets denied the ability to lease? Surely they would get their deposit refunded?

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