Tesla revises range estimates

[MIG]

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[Riviot]

 

[NineElectrics]

Next hopeful milestone: Rivian should remove the city portion of their EPA estimate from their range number. When people look at range, they are thinking of road trips, not driving in the city. The city number artificially increases the blended EPA range and makes it less accurate for trips. I think this may be what Tesla has done just now.

 

[Throwdown]

I really wish the stated range was what they want you to charge too daily, that's more realistic as well. I also wish they put a small 8-10kwh battery somewhere in all evs that solely handles critical systems and hvac and was not stated in the capacity and range numbers so that what it gets for range doesn't have to be dictated by temperature and interior comfort. This wouldn't be hard to do at all and would really help. I'm a longtime ev owner and range anxiety isn't a thing to me but I hate to see the range so variable with the seasons and temp swings

 

[Throwdown]

I would also love to see bigger battery buffers so 0-100% charging can be faster. Like have a 150kwh battery pack but 25kwh top end buffer and the stated range and size of the battery be based off of 125kwh

 

[NineElectrics]

Another funny detail about Tesla: in my experience, the battery degrades 2-5% within the first 20K miles, but they never quote the degraded range. Really they should quote the average range over three years of use. It’s annoying to lose 5% of range in a new car just one year after buying it. Now your 300 mile car has 285 miles of range.

 

[SlaterGS]

Next hopeful milestone: Rivian should remove the city portion of their EPA estimate from their range number. When people look at range, they are thinking of road trips, not driving in the city. The city number artificially increases the blended EPA range and makes it less accurate for trips. I think this may be what Tesla has done just now.

There is no chance any manufacturer is going to willingly reduce the max range they can market to be more realistic.
Whether in regards to battery degradation, weather, all highway driving, etc.
Would be nice, but there are way too many variables and I don't see anyone reducing their competitive advantage unless the industry is forced to with new testing methodology from the EPA.

 

[DuoRivians]

Why the EPA range estimates were changed. TBD how it might affect Rivian’s numbers.

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=55592&flag=1

 

[NineElectrics]

There is no chance any manufacturer is going to willingly reduce the max range they can market to be more realistic.
Whether in regards to battery degradation, weather, all highway driving, etc.
Would be nice, but there are way too many variables and I don't see anyone reducing their competitive advantage unless the industry is forced to with new testing methodology from the EPA.

Tesla did it with the original Model 3 dual motor rollout, interestingly. Though I think it was done to make the dual motor look more attractive relative to RWD: https://electrek.co/2018/07/24/tesla-model3-epa-ratings-advertise/

 

[mkg3]

I would also love to see bigger battery buffers so 0-100% charging can be faster. Like have a 150kwh battery pack but 25kwh top end buffer and the stated range and size of the battery be based off of 125kwh

Model S has around 100kWh, Model Y has about 80kWh so going to 150 kWh would mean adding 50kWh~70kWh, depending on which vehicle.

At the current EV battery density of 250Wh/kg, the added weight of (not to mention finding volume for them) 50,000~80,000 Wh, That's200kg~350kg, or 440 lbs~770 lbs.

The benefit of adding more battery is not linear and more you add, more weight you have to carry; hence, miles/kWh goes down.

 

[evhelphub]

Word on the street is the battery pack size has been slightly reduced which they implemented on some models in other countries.

Truthfully, the EPA needs to be more stringent on automakers so that owners feel informed on what they are getting. There's too much flexibility in testing and self elected penalties.

I wish they provided an expected winter range number, too.

I've owned a model 3, Y, and S. The rated range on all of them in most conditions is very difficult to get outside of city driving in good weather conditions.

I personally felt that a fairer range assessment for the Model Y prior to this change was 270 miles (not including winter).

And this isn't consistent across EVs right now. My ID4 achieves or beats it's range estimate with mixed driving. On the highway it's only a 10% reduction at 75mph.

My ID4 and Model Y had a 90 mile advertised range gap difference. In reality, it's probably closer to 30-45 miles. Edmunds test shows 30 mile difference as well.

I just hope that the government evolves a bit here. Owner satisfaction would increase significantly.

 

[mkg3]

Another funny detail about Tesla: in my experience, the battery degrades 2-5% within the first 20K miles, but they never quote the degraded range. Really they should quote the average range over three years of use. It’s annoying to lose 5% of range in a new car just one year after buying it. Now your 300 mile car has 285 miles of range.

My Recurrent report says my current expected range is 295 miles and EPA range is 310 miles. That 's a loss of 15 miles in 5.5yrs/57k miles. In terms of percentage is a loss of 4.8%.

My Rivian Recurrent report says my current expected range is 296 miles and EPA range is 321 (I think this is for 21" and I have 22"). Its 5 months old/5100 miles.

Not sure why you are seeing such a large degradation so early???

 

[Throwdown]

I gave a size example, adding 25kwh to a 80 kwh pack wouldn't be that dramatic of an efficiency change, and to me being able go get a"full charge" faster would be awesome. Imagine being able to add back the entire capacity of what you can use on a car in less than 30 minutes. So have a model y with a 100kwh battery pack, but only be able to use 75kwh of that at all you'd be able to recharge that 75kwh faster is what I mean

 

[RealBillNye]

I really wish the stated range was what they want you to charge too daily, that's more realistic as well. I also wish they put a small 8-10kwh battery somewhere in all evs that solely handles critical systems and hvac and was not stated in the capacity and range numbers so that what it gets for range doesn't have to be dictated by temperature and interior comfort. This wouldn't be hard to do at all and would really help. I'm a longtime ev owner and range anxiety isn't a thing to me but I hate to see the range so variable with the seasons and temp swings

This would only encourage more confusion than there already is. People already think that you cant ever charge above 80% which just isn't true. Charging to 100% for a road trip every so often is not going to have a significant effect on the battery and the vast majority of people don't get anywhere near the 80% daily recommended limit on a normal basis.

 

[Throwdown]

This would only encourage more confusion than there already is. People already think that you cant ever charge above 80% which just isn't true. Charging to 100% for a road trip every so often is not going to have a significant effect on the battery and the vast majority of people don't get anywhere near the 80% daily recommended limit on a normal basis.

I disagree because the customer wouldn't know, and when it's really cold or really hot you wouldn't see your range drop faster than you were actually traveling. This thread was about stated range and range estimates, my point is that a dedicated small battery strictly for hvac would make range estimates more realistic

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