Q3 2024 Production / Delivery Numbers… Not good

[Electron]

I disagree that they used Tesla's stying as Rivian has a much better style than Teslas do. Tesla looks like a generic melted jelly bean or a weird brutalist sculpture. The reason they had a foothold was despite the design not because of it. That's changing as alternatives enter the market and we are seeing that.

Does the Cybertruck have overhead camera view, a normal steering wheel and a turn signal stalk? If not why would I care about features that I MIGHT like in the CT when the CT doesn't even have the features that I DO like?

I was referring to the UI design lol. Was that not clear? I was responding to us talking about software.

Rivian 100% modeled their button-less concept, copying Tesla. That's just a fact. Does that bother you? It doesn't bother me.

A 360 cam view is something they could do and it baffles the EV world why they haven't already.

Why would you want to drive the CT? To broaden your horizon. It's actually healthy.

As for the missing stalks, it's silly yes, but there are after market options that will be available, if not already available that'll function 1:1 to what we're used to. It already exists for the new model 3. There's no disagreement that it's dumb to have removed them.

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[Donald Stanfield]

I was referring to the UI design lol. Was that not clear? I was responding to us talking about software.

Rivian 100% modeled their button-less concept, copying Tesla. That's just a fact. Does that bother you? It doesn't bother me.

A 360 cam view is something they could do and it baffles the EV world why they haven't already.

Why would you want to drive the CT? To broaden your horizon. It's actually healthy.

As for the missing stalks, it's silly yes, but there are after market options that will be available, if not already available that'll function 1:1 to what we're used to. It already exists for the new model 3. There's no disagreement that it's dumb to have removed them.

Tesla doesn't have the only touchscreen technology, and you can argue that BOTH Tesla and Rivian are derivative of Apple with the iPad. Regardless, It wouldn't broaden my horizon if I don't feel the product can give me the essential features that I expect from a vehicle. The top-down camera is something I use daily in parking lots, and I wouldn't want to give it up. I haven't drive a Cybertruck but I have test driven other Teslas and have eliminated them for the reasons mentioned. Additionally I just don't care for the look and the gimmick of the CT. One of the things I viewed as negative about the Hummer when I was evaluating that is the attention it drew. The CT is even worse than the Hummer in that regard.

It's fine if you like them, I prioritize other features than you do and that's okay.

 

[Electron]

Tesla doesn't have the only touchscreen technology, and you can argue that BOTH Tesla and Rivian are derivative of Apple with the iPad. Regardless, It wouldn't broaden my horizon if I don't feel the product can give me the essential features that I expect from a vehicle. The top-down camera is something I use daily in parking lots, and I wouldn't want to give it up. I haven't drive a Cybertruck but I have test driven other Teslas and have eliminated them for the reasons mentioned. Additionally I just don't care for the look and the gimmick of the CT. One of the things I viewed as negative about the Hummer when I was evaluating that is the attention it drew. The CT is even worse than the Hummer in that regard.

It's fine if you like them, I prioritize other features than you do and that's okay.

Yea I get the argument, but the whole button-less touch screen thing was pioneered by Tesla and the chances are very high that Rivian modeled that same theme directly from Tesla. It's actually pretty obvious.

If you look at KIA with the EV9, IONIQ line up, Porsche Taycan, Audi eTron, Mercedes EQx line etc., those are examples of who didn't copy Tesla with the whole tablet style approach.

On the flip side you have EVs like the Ford Mustang Mach-e, Ford Lightning, Polestar, Lucid (sort of), and Rivian who followed Tesla's tablet theme.

I'm all for the top down 360 cam. It's important to me as well, but not having such a feature when they can add it via an OTA, doesn't make a vehicle all of a sudden bad all around. At least it's a software thing and not a physical hardware thing.

This is one of the saving graces for Rivian in that a lot of its faults are software related that can be fixed OTA.

It's like saying, gosh I hate the fact that the R1S has a terrible sound system (which it does) so now because of that one thing the R1S is bad.

Just balancing the scales here. We all have our must haves in a vehicle and that's completely fine. We need more EV options in the space to choose from and as more auto makers release their EVs the market will get more saturated, forcing everyone to up their game. Good for consumers.

The CT is indeed polarizing, but it has grown on me. I get wanting to avoid receiving all the attention, I'm the same way. It's funny how some people feed of of this, which makes me chuckle, especially seeing all these hollywood bozos getting the CT purely for the attention.

Tesla's strength is with their Software, while Rivian's strength is with their hardware.

 

[shap]

Tesla's strength is with their Software, while Rivian's strength is with their hardware.

I am not sure what strength Rivian has with it's hardware. Gen1 has outdated ADAS, air suspension very noisy, AC is noisy and vibrations are not isolated, etc . Gen2 has better cameras but still the same old mobileye system for now.

Not sure what hardware superiority Rivian has over CT or Other evs.

Software wise Rivian is buggy and can not fully resolve drivecam and motion cam issues (even with the latest 35 update).

 

[Gentilly7]

Rivian is at risk of missing its first profitable quarter in Q4 due to this lower production/part shortage. Not becoming profitable in Q4 will be a huge let down.

Rivian has far too many options for a low volume, electric startup streamlining manufacturing, striving for profitability. Has anyone played with the configurator lately? Tesla was annoyingly good at making vehicles with as little options as possible. It also helps when you are trying to move inventory, not too many options that a buyer would be holding out for. The number of wheel and tire options, emblem colors, sound system etc. some of this stuff has to go.

Let’s not even get into the drivetrain and battery options. Or the thousands you will pay for any color other than silver.

Rivian needs to be able to make a compelling offering under the $80k threshold, that’s still profitable for the company. What they have now still misses the mark.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Rivian is at risk of missing its first profitable quarter in Q4 due to this lower production/part shortage. Not becoming profitable in Q4 will be a huge let down.

Rivian has far too many options for a low volume, electric startup streamlining manufacturing, striving for profitability. Has anyone played with the configurator lately? Tesla was annoyingly good at making vehicles with as little options as possible. It also helps when you are trying to move inventory, not too many options that a buyer would be holding out for. The number of wheel and tire options, emblem colors, sound system etc. some of this stuff has to go.

Let’s not even get into the drivetrain and battery options. Or the thousands you will pay for any color other than silver.

Rivian needs to be able to make a compelling offering under the $80k threshold, that’s still profitable for the company. What they have now still misses the mark.

To Rivian's defense, the market is different now than when Tesla ramped up. It's easy to act like the Henry Ford of EVs when you ARE the Henry Ford of EVs. Now, with all the choices on the market, you need things like options because people want to tailor their large purchases to their tastes. My new tri-motor cost 111K dollars. Look at the other cars at that same price point, Porsche you can customize just about everything about their cars. BMW has a program where you can choose from 160 colors to get your car in.

 

[Gentilly7]

To Rivian's defense, the market is different now than when Tesla ramped up. It's easy to act like the Henry Ford of EVs when you ARE the Henry Ford of EVs. Now, with all the choices on the market, you need things like options because people want to tailor their large purchases to their tastes. My new tri-motor cost 111K dollars. Look at the other cars at that same price point, Porsche you can customize just about everything about their cars. BMW has a program where you can choose from 160 colors to get your car in.

Very true but if they continue to target the over $100k market with option combinations to rival Porsche and BMW, they won’t survive long enough to make R2. They have to crawl before they walk, especially when they are still taking a bath on every vehicle sold.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Very true but if they continue to target the over $100k market with option combinations to rival Porsche and BMW, they won’t survive long enough to make R2. They have to crawl before they walk, especially when they are still taking a bath on every vehicle sold.

With the Gen 2 upgrades they are hoping to be net cash flow positive.

 

[Evan1]

I am not sure why many of the startups build their most expensive vehicle first. The R2 should have come out first and then the R3 and finally the more expensive models.

 

[atebit]

Rivian has built something solid in such a short period of time and it's quite commendable for such a young company. It's strong in software, motors and other internal strengths that there's real value here for a good buy for a major company if it were to come to that.

In my experience with other products, “take-overs” usually don’t benefit existing customers/owners for very long. The “old way” wasn’t working, and the “new way” will come to pass without much regard for the albatrosses.

 

[atebit]

Regarding service centers, the Garden State already has one in operation, in Roebling, near Trenton.

I tried to make an appointment at that SC for something as banal as a wheel alignment. The Service line told me that SC was “unavailable to customers”. Not that it was backed up into oblivion, just that it was “not available”.

An unavailable SC isn’t an SC, just like a friendly yellow “coming soon” dot on Rivian’s map isn’t an SC. There’s been lots of speculation about Malvern, too, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[DuoRivian]

I am not sure why many of the startups build their most expensive vehicle first. The R2 should have come out first and then the R3 and finally the more expensive models.

Because the battery costs a lot and if you start with a more expensive vehicle then that cost is not such a large percentage. It allows them to build a brand which is what Tesla did. It is easier to start premium and then do cheaper than the other way round.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Yeah, 2026 is too long to wait. I hope the VW deal holds, because if it doesn’t Rivian is in deep shit.

 

[Trandall]

I’ve had my truck three years…when does this drivers+ get better? I was informed Gen1 drivers+ isn’t supported going forward…on this forum.

maybe my 8th visit to the service center takes the shine off the price? You know…the SC where you have an appointment for Monday….and the truck sits in the parking lot until Thursday. Then you get to Uber or rental car around for 2 weeks. Makes me wonder if that’s worth six figures.

Speaking of awesome OTA updates…remember when they bricked all the vehicles with the botched update? I do.

or the last OTA that f’d my rear sensors. I’m numb to this stuff now…but I’ll never pay 100K for this again.

Your post above is a bit hyperbolic. Here is why I say this:
Had my R1 about the same time as you and driver+ has gotten better over that time, albiet from terrible to just moderately bad. If fairness though most ADAS systems come as part of a technology package that costs a few $1K-4K extra and are on par or barely better than Driver+. Driver+ is standard and free so I give Rivian some slack on this. Also Rivian never said Gen 1+ would cease to improve only that gen 2 is capable of a higher level of autonomy and at some point they would diverge in capability.

I can't speak to your service history but mine has been fantastic.

No OTA has ever bricked either of my R1's so your statement above is false, furthermore I believe you know it's falls which makes it a lie.

Maybe Rivian has a demand problem, maybe it will turn out to be severe and persistent, maybe they will go bankrupt and meet some ugly demise. Fine have that opinion but unconstructive criticism only perpetuates demand struggles.

If I disliked my R1 that much and thought the company was doomed I'd have mine listed for sale right now before the bottom drops out.

If you're NOT doing this then it tells me either we're only hearing half your story or you're illogical.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Rivian is at risk of missing its first profitable quarter in Q4 due to this lower production/part shortage. Not becoming profitable in Q4 will be a huge let down.

Rivian has far too many options for a low volume, electric startup streamlining manufacturing, striving for profitability. Has anyone played with the configurator lately? Tesla was annoyingly good at making vehicles with as little options as possible. It also helps when you are trying to move inventory, not too many options that a buyer would be holding out for. The number of wheel and tire options, emblem colors, sound system etc. some of this stuff has to go.

Let’s not even get into the drivetrain and battery options. Or the thousands you will pay for any color other than silver.

Rivian needs to be able to make a compelling offering under the $80k threshold, that’s still profitable for the company. What they have now still misses the mark.

This is fake news. Rivian has not said that they will be profitable in Q4. They have never indicated that they will make a profit in 2024. They are committed to having a positive contribution margin on R1 vehicles in Q4 of this year. It remains to be seen whether or not the change to production forecast will impact that goal.

Having a positive contribution margin is very different from having a net profit, so people need to stop repeating that line.

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