25% Tariffs on All Imports - Effect on Rivian prices?

[Donald Stanfield]

You can't pay down the deficit and give giant tax breaks (which always preferentially favor the wealthy). Also, if the plan works perfectly, and manufacturing comes back to the US the products will still be more expensive, and then there is no tax revenue from tariffs to offset with tax breaks. Dumb dumb dumb.

The whole point of bringing jobs back is to make it cheaper eventually. We should be applying tariffs to countries without environmental protections or countries that don't pay a living wage to their workers anyhow.

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[Alanparkcity]

Yes, the $15k was just a WAG/example. But, it’s good to know it should be considerably less. It would be unfortunate if the tariffs had an impact on Rivian sales. Buy by the sounds of it, should it result in a price increase, it will be negligible.

I think more likely is that Rivian, like all companies will be negatively impacted by the upcoming recession and or stagflation, unless Trump backs off his stupid trade war.

 

[doit82]

The whole point of bringing jobs back is to make it cheaper eventually. We should be applying tariffs to countries without environmental protections or countries that don't pay a living wage to their workers anyhow.

how do you make it cheaper eventually?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

how do you make it cheaper eventually?

Economies of scale.

 

[doit82]

Economies of scale.

Are you suggesting that products made in the USA will be as cheap as products made in China despite the large discrepancy in wages? Will this come from automation? I dont think scale will simply solve that problem. You have to not pay a lot of people that were doing the production in China to have similar prices in the US.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Are you suggesting that products made in the USA will be as cheap as products made in China despite the large discrepancy in wages? Will this come from automation? I dont think scale will simply solve that problem. You have to not pay a lot of people that were doing the production in China to have similar prices in the US.

Or it reduces the concentration of wealth from elite billionaires because the money is better distributed throughout our economy. Prices are relative as well, so we might get it cheaper from China as they don't pay their people anywhere close to what we do, but if the money stays in our economy we will be better off.

We should have never taken advantage of cheap labor to the detriment of our workers in the first place. Lastly, automation will reduce the need for human workers and potentially create a post-scarcity world. Just like how ending slavery ushered in the industrial revolution.

I'm not a political expert, and I don't know for sure that tariffs are the answer, but continuing on the path we are on while growing our trade deficit year after year isn't working.

 

[NY_Rob]

Nike employees over 600k people in Vietnam and a few other countries. Could we find 600k people in the US to make shoes for minimum wage?

Over 600,000 employees making their product in foreign countries whom they pay dirt cheap wages and they still charge up to $200 for a pair of sneakers? People are defending that?

 

[manitou202]

Over 600,000 employees making their product in foreign countries whom they pay dirt cheap wages and they still charge up to $200 for a pair of sneakers? People are defending that?

We could make those shoes in another country and layoff 600k people in Vietnam and collapse their economy. Those workers would likely fall back into poverty. Look at China and how many people have been lifted out of poverty because of manufacturing goods for other countries. I work for a company that makes many products in Mexico and I can tell you the Mexican workers have higher engagement scores than the American workers. They are very happy to have jobs that pay well relative to their standard of living.

It is by no means perfect, and there is plenty of abuse or workers. But it’s pretty naive to think we can simply move all manufacturing to the US and support our demands. We all participate in this system today.

 

[NY_Rob]

We could make those shoes in another country and layoff 600k people in Vietnam and collapse their economy. Those workers would likely fall back into poverty.

How about we make them here and employee Americans vs workers in Vietnam. Ask the workers in Vietnam if they felt bad for the Americans they took their jobs from. FWIW... Nike CEO made $32.8 Million last year.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Over 600,000 employees making their product in foreign countries whom they pay dirt cheap wages and they still charge up to $200 for a pair of sneakers? People are defending that?

It's a step further than that. One way prices were historically competitive was through logistical savings. Local businesses could give you something cheaper than a business across the country. That advantage disappeared once large companies could source their products overseas utilizing cheap labor. Now, some of that wealth might decentralize, which is good for the middle class and bad for the ruling class.

 

[Eric9610]

Tariffs is how you break an economy from consumerism to manufacture. It's a fact we in America consume to much! I have no problem pay = or more for products made here supporting American workers. We also can't be fooled into thinking robotization won't play a large role in this transition. We will never go back to how it was, but we can do better.

 

[ndmiller]

Tariffs is how you break an economy from consumerism to manufacture. It's a fact we in America consume to much! I have no problem pay = or more for products made here supporting American workers. We also can't be filled into thinking robotization won't play a large role in this transition. We will never go back to how it was, but we can do better.

As everyone already knows, there is no manufacturing in the US in any meaningful way. No-one is investing in either building it or reopening it. There aren't any workers for any type of skilled manufacturing save the auto industry anymore and no-one is going to school for things that don't exist here. If no-one is investing in the first part, no-one is investing in manufacturing automation either. Nothing about additional taxes will change this.

Pragmatically, behavior can't be taxed into submission in the US. Remember why American exists, the British tried it. As a result, Americans can vote and no tariff is going to change the habits of 300 million consumers in the US. Americans also can outlast any political nonsense like this going back longer than I've been alive.

Prices will go up and then midterm elections will happen with consequences, just like when the other party went loco (again both parties have gone loco many many times over 50 years). The Fed is already talking about managing a recession and it's been less than 24 hours. Smart people know a few people are driving a policy affecting 300 million people. This too will be over very shortly when the crowds stop cheering and start booing, which has happened at a downhill near us all.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

It's a step further than that. One way prices were historically competitive was through logistical savings. Local businesses could give you something cheaper than a business across the country. That advantage disappeared once large companies could source their products overseas utilizing cheap labor. Now, some of that wealth might decentralize, which is good for the middle class and bad for the ruling class.

I'm not seeing that, @Donald Stanfield..

Tariffs seem to be a form of consumption tax, thus generally regressive.

Tax cuts for the wealthy have made income taxes much less progressive than they were when I was young (which was a much better time for the middle class than currently).

Remember when Warren Buffett said, as an example of how sick we've become, that his secretary's income tax was consistently a higher percent of income than his?

Best wishes!

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I'm not seeing that, @Donald Stanfield..

Tariffs seem to be a form of consumption tax, thus generally regressive.

Tax cuts for the wealthy have made income taxes much less progressive than they were when I was young (which was a much better time for the middle class than currently).

Remember when Warren Buffett said, as an example of how sick we've become, that his secretary's income tax was consistently a higher percent of income than his?

Best wishes!

I don't think it was tax cuts so much as losing our manufacturing base. The top 1% still paid over 40% of the total of income taxes. With that huge disparity "tax more" isn't the answer.

 

[SASSquatch]

Let’s also remember that GM and VW have lost over $30 billion in one year. In the automotive industry when things go south they go south fast. $88 billion might sound like a lot but GM lost $70 billion in 2 years in 2007/2008.

Right. And they are still in a very strong position and are the #2 in overall sales.

Rivian and ICE OEMs are not on the same footing because they don't have the same access to cash to keep them afloat.

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