Apple CarPlay and Android for R1T / R1S?

[astonius]

Sounds like the BMW X5 is a great fit then lol, because the lion share of CarPlay installs use a cable.

Not going to get into the why's and how's, been working with Apple forever professionally and trust me, when iOS came out w/ an SDK there were very few developers. Same with Android. Microsoft had the lion share of developers but their mobile OS failed for a number of reasons.

I'll leave this here: glad you love CarPlay, glad Rivian is smart enough to prioritize their focus on their proprietary, in-house platform.

I don't think you have much experience with CarPlay (which explains a lot of your arguments). Most new vehicles are offering wireless options, and not just luxury brands. Kia, Hyundai, Ford, GM, Stellantis, even Toyota -- all of them offer wireless CarPlay, and not just on top-trim vehicles.

I'm well aware of the landscape back in 2008 as I bought the iPhone 3G on launch day. Comparing nascent smartphone SDKs to automotive infotainment systems is ridiculous. The scale and scope makes zero sense, especially for a start-up automotive manufacturer where infotainment is only a fraction of their concerns. Apple sold over 12 million iPhones in the first two years. How many vehicles is Rivian going to deliver in the next 10? This says nothing of the pedigree and size of the development team at Apple at the time the iOS SDK was released. It's a silly comparison.

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[hola29]

I have used Carplay for years and years. I bought the head unit from Alpine on release. And I am correct, the lion shae of CarPlay vehicles currently on the road use a USB cable. Wireless CarPlay is relatively new and far far fewer car on the road use it wirelessly.

Regardless, I have been working with Apple since they bought the precursor to iTunes, prior to Safari, the initial iPod, the release of OS X Aqua, iTools/MobileMe/.me/iCloud...None of these were slam dunks and all of them started with major hiccups, complaints, and difficult compromises....

What you don't get is Rivian is making the correct decision to not prioritize CarPlay or AA in favor of developing their in house platforms, technology stack, and apps library vs. dealing with a non-interested giant third party, their own app store, approval process, terms of use, etc.. We'll see where that goes but it is an obvious decision - whether they add CarPlay or not remains to be seen.

Glad RJ/team (Apple too) are making decisions and not joe public. Then again Joe public's tend not to launch multi-billion dollar companies. I can't even imagine saying to my product team, yeah let's punt and be like iDrive customers to have BMW buyers use an Apple interface (OS, Apps, Data) because ours sucks even though we are fully integrated w/ the hardware...lol. Talk about silly.

I don't think you have much experience with CarPlay (which explains a lot of your arguments). Most new vehicles are offering wireless options, and not just luxury brands. Kia, Hyundai, Ford, GM, Stellantis, even Toyota -- all of them offer wireless CarPlay, and not just on top-trim vehicles.

I'm well aware of the landscape back in 2008 as I bought the iPhone 3G on launch day. Comparing nascent smartphone SDKs to automotive infotainment systems is ridiculous. The scale and scope makes zero sense, especially for a start-up automotive manufacturer where infotainment is only a fraction of their concerns. Apple sold over 12 million iPhones in the first two years. How many vehicles is Rivian going to deliver in the next 10? This says nothing of the pedigree and size of the development team at Apple at the time the iOS SDK was released. It's a silly comparison.

 

[astonius]

I have used Carplay for years and years. I bought the head unit from Alpine on release. And I am correct, the lion shae of CarPlay vehicles currently on the road use a USB cable. Wireless CarPlay is relatively new and far far fewer car on the road use it wirelessly.

Regardless, I have been working with Apple since they bought the precursor to iTunes, prior to Safari, the initial iPod, the release of OS X Aqua, iTools/MobileMe/.me/iCloud...None of these were slam dunks and all of them started with major hiccups, complaints, and difficult compromises....

What you don't get is Rivian is making the correct decision to not prioritize CarPlay or AA in favor of developing their in house platforms, technology stack, and apps library vs. dealing with a non-interested giant third party, their own app store, approval process, terms of use, etc.. We'll see where that goes but it is an obvious decision - whether they add CarPlay or not remains to be seen.

Glad RJ/team (Apple too) are making decisions and not joe public. Then again Joe public's tend not to launch multi-billion dollar companies.

Show me evidence that they are developing an "in-house platform." You keep saying this, but there's no evidence to that. There's zero evidence that Rivian is creating a platform for apps and services. It is an entirely closed system with no additional apps or services even mentioned, let alone promised, and zero indication that third-party apps will ever be an option. Since you keep circling back to Apple nonsensically, pre-SDK iOS relied entirely on web applications, and Apple quickly changed course when they realized this was inadequate. Rivian isn't even providing a web browser, let alone some sort of SDK.

To argue that this is somehow "progress" is ludicrous.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Not going to get into the why's and how's, been working with Apple forever professionally and trust me, when iOS came out w/ an SDK there were very few developers.

That doesn't sound right, to me. When the iPhone initially launched, there was no app store. Apple wanted to completely own the native-app market. Nothing could run on the device that Apple didn't provide. Instead they basically just allowed web bookmarks to be created on the launch screen -- but every third party "app" ran in a browser window -- they were just hyperlinks.

Users didn't like it. App developers didn't like it. Apple is notoriously stubborn, but they relented and now we have the app store. The market definitely embraced it, too. The App Store quickly because the largest and many would argue still has the highest quality apps of any mobile app market.

 

[Obioban]

The notion that Rivian can ever sell enough vehicles to remotely be a high priority development target is silly. There are over a billion iPhones in active use. Rivian is unlikely to ever sell 0.1% of that, or have 0.01% of that in active use. Plus, even if developers want to make apps, they currently can’t.

The statement of Rivian prioritizing developing their own system over CP/AA is also silly—they just have to enable CP/AA, afterwhich it keeps itself up to date. VERY little effort for them to turn it on, and no ongoing effort—the lack of CP/AA a decision unrelated to effort. (the wireless carplay in my e46/e39 is a POS chineseium head unit, and carplay works flawlessly. This is not a difficult thing to enable)

How many cars on the road have wired vs wireless carplay is meaningless—wireless is the norm these days, and presumably what Rivian would do, so that’s the experience we should be comparing.

At some point, over the air updates on the Rivian will stop functioning. The stock modem on my e46/e39 stopped working years ago, when AT&T turned off 2G. The modem on my i3 stopped working last year, when AT&T turned off 3G. At some point in the future, 4G/5G (idk what rivian is using) will stop working as well. Even if somehow the cellular connection worked forever, at some point Rivian will stop updating the vehicle. You know what would still work at that point? CarPlay

Rivian’s interface is pretty janky as is, andmany services will just never exist—even if you don’t mind paying monthly for the jank.

CP/AA does not need to make Rivian's stock interface any worse. If Rivian's stock interface is better, people can use it. Nothing about enabling CP/AA is detrimental to the stock interface-- in fact, if anything it gives the stock interface competition, incentivizing Rivian to improve it.

If I get a Rivian, it’ll mostly be parked. I’ll drive it when I need a trunk, which is likely to be ~1-2 times a month. Paying monthly to enable shitty versions of services I don’t use (spotify), non waze nav) does not appeal to me.

So, as I said… not buying the truck unless they add CarPlay support.

 

[hola29]

That's not how it works. It takes a while to build an OS, SDK, App store, review process...a lot of these initiatives are 3 years in the making, if not longer...When Apple bought SoundJam (which I used before Apple bought it for listening to MP3's) I had no idea they were planning a physical music player a year later and use it for syncing...but they had been doing DD on an acquisition for the plan way before and designing the HW/SW prior as well.

I believe the App store launch about a year after the first iPhone, but they were certainly thinking about more than a year prior.

Bottom line is Rivian has vision for its software platform...Yes, they could have probably released an app or two to work on carplay, but what a massive compromise that would be. Think big, build a great OS and platform. Out compete CarPlay w/ UI. Try to build an App ecosystem. Sticking with CarPlay as a primary interface would have been a huge failure from a business and likely user standpoint.

But we'll see...I can leave this thread at that, and again, just my opinion.

That doesn't sound right, to me. When the iPhone initially launched, there was no app store. Apple wanted to completely own the native-app market. Nothing could run on the device that Apple didn't provide. Instead they basically just allowed web bookmarks to be created on the launch screen -- but every third party "app" ran in a browser window -- they were just hyperlinks.

Users didn't like it. App developers didn't like it. Apple is notoriously stubborn, but they relented and now we have the app store. The market definitely embraced it, too. The App Store quickly because the largest and many would argue still has the highest quality apps of any mobile app market.

 

[hola29]

You sound like a core customer Rivian should be designing for.

The notion that Rivian can ever sell enough vehicles to remotely be a high priority development target is silly. There are over a billion iPhones in active use. Rivian is unlikely to ever get within 0.1% of that. Plus, even if developers want to make apps, they currently can’t.

The statement of Rivian prioritizing developing their own system over CP/AA is also silly—they just have to enable CP/AA, afterwhich it keeps itself up to date. VERY little effort for them to turn it on, and no ongoing effort—the lack of CP/AA a decision unrelated to effort. (the wireless carplay in my e46/e39 is a POS chineseium head unit, and carplay works flawlessly. This is not a difficult thing to enable)

How many cars on the road have wired vs wireless carplay is meaningless—wireless is the norm these days, and presumably what Rivian would do, so that’s the experience we should be comparing.

At some point, over the air updates on the Rivian will stop functioning. The stock modem on my e46/e39 stopped working years ago, when AT&T turned off 2G. The modem on my i3 stopped working last year, when AT&T turned off 3G. At some point in the future, 4G/5G (idk what rivian is using) will stop working as well. Even if somehow the cellular connection worked forever, at some point Rivian will stop updating the vehicle. You know what would still work at that point? CarPlay

Rivian’s interface is pretty janky as is, as many services will just never exist—even if you don’t mind paying monthly for the jank.

CP/AA does not need to make Rivian's stock interface any worse. If Rivian's stock interface is better, people can use it. Nothing about enabling CP/AA is detrimental to the stock interface-- in fact, if anything it gives the stock interface competition, incentivizing Rivian to improve it.

If I get a Rivian, it’ll mostly be parked. I’ll drive it when I need a trunk, which is likely to be ~1-2 times a month. Paying monthly to enable shitty versions of services I don’t use (spotify), non waze nav) does not appeal to me.

So, as I said… not buying the truck unless they add CarPlay support.

 

[Obioban]

You sound like a core customer Rivian should be designing for.

Fine work avoiding any actual discussion of the points I made

 

[hola29]

I am done going around in circles...the obvious business move was to prioritize the software platform, improve the native app ecosystem, and make it best in class. As a product developer you leave some folks, like yourself, that are worst case fit for a launch product behind, and that's OK.

Some come around after they decide to try something new. Some don't, that's fine.

Fine work avoiding any actual discussion of the points I made

 

[astonius]

I am done going around in circles...the obvious business move was to prioritize the software platform, improve the native app ecosystem, and make it best in class. As a product developer you leave some folks, like yourself, that are worst case fit for a launch product behind, and that's OK.

Some come around after they decide to try something new. Some don't, that's fine.

What a cop-out. You keep making claims about a supposed app platform with zero evidence and ignoring anyone who calls you out on it.

 

[hola29]

You mean like Spotify and Tune-In on launch?

Also, I did not drill down into the Apps menu item, curious if anyone has and what that menu option is...perhaps just individual App settings...

Anyway, this discussion is pointless. Loved the interface and hope it gets even better.

What a cop-out. You keep making claims about a supposed app platform with zero evidence and ignoring anyone who calls you out on it.

 

[Obioban]

I do enjoy how half the threads you see of Rivians in use have a phone suctioned onto the windshield. People clearly love the the stock ICE. Great to still be able to have that 2010 phone on windshield experience in 2021.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/r1t-towing-range-sneak-peek-—-44-miles-of-predicted-range-with-37-battery-remaining.2921/

 

[astonius]

You mean like Spotify and Tune-In on launch?

Also, I did not drill down into the Apps menu item, curious if anyone has and what that menu option is...perhaps just individual App settings.

Apps != App platform

Wouldn't even really consider them "apps" since they are tightly integrated with the interface, more like integrated services. We don't consider FM radio an app.

 

[hola29]

lol

Apps != App platform

 

[astonius]

lol

Rivian Chat Transcript: 11/29/21

11/29/2021, 11:39:36 AM - Emily: Thank you for chatting in with us today, my name is Emily, how can I help?
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11/29/2021, 11:41:08 AM - Ryan: Hi Emily, just wanted to see if there's any updates on the possibility of adding CarPlay support to the Rivian infotainment system
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11/29/2021, 11:42:18 AM - Emily: Hey there Ryan! That is a great question. At this time, we do not have any updates on whether that will be something we can add into our infotainment system later on. All we know currently is that at launch, it will not be available. My apologies!
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11/29/2021, 11:43:23 AM - Ryan: Can you get clarity on if the truck has all of the necessary hardware for it? I've been told it's being considered as a software update potentially, but I believe there's a hardware component to it as well. I may be wrong, but I would really appreciate getting clarity on that.
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11/29/2021, 11:44:23 AM - Emily: We are currently waiting on more information regarding this as a potential update. I have heard this mentioned as well by our community and our teams are still looking into getting us the information we need. As soon as we know more, we will share it!
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11/29/2021, 11:45:12 AM - Ryan: Ok, and just to clarify one other point: Rivian has no plans to make their native infotainment system an open app platform for third-party developers to add support for additional apps and services. Is that an accurate statement?
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11/29/2021, 11:46:06 AM - Emily: That is a great question. I double checked, and at this time we do not have any information about that. I have not heard anything about that myself.
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11/29/2021, 11:47:36 AM - Ryan: Thank you. Please continue to reiterate with your team the importance of adding CarPlay support. It enables a wealth of apps and services that Rivian, to my knowledge, has no plans of supporting or providing a method for others to support. I am not a Spotify user, nor do I want to be.
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11/29/2021, 11:48:00 AM - Emily: I would be happy to pass that along! Thank you so much for the feedback.
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11/29/2021, 11:48:05 AM - Emily: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
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11/29/2021, 11:48:15 AM - Ryan: That's all, thank you for your time.
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11/29/2021, 11:48:22 AM - Emily: Thank you again for chatting in with us today. I hope you have a great rest of the day and be sure to reach out if you ever need anything!
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