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UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan

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The Honda Prologue (Chevy Trailblazer EV) is selling like hotcakes here in CA. That vehicle starts at $42K, so if the Rivian R2 can match the price and be a better vehicle overall, I think we will have a winner.
Prologue is based on the Equinox EV, which is posting very strong figures for GM and best selling EV in the US. ZDX is based on the Blazer and Acura just killed it.
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DD4ST

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Good discussion here. Also, Rivian will experience stiffer near term competition from GM/Ford who used a sleight of hand through their financing arms to continue to deliver the $7500 EV credit on existing inventory (financial arms essentially purchase with money down before the end of September and then can lease in the fourth quarter). This will take away Rivian sales. I think Rivian is trying to put their best face forward but every time they miss their credibility goes down. Honestly, I don’t really see the R2 making the difference because of the RJ price target and even more competition in that vehicle space. I’ve got Rivian stock but …..
 

richguess

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They’ll roll those dual and tri motors out first to try to entice early adopters and people with deep pockets. They’ve got to maximize profits to survive.

In a recent interview with RJ they hinted at R2s being configured at $60K. RJ said he wishes, which makes me think most will be in the low to mid 50’s.

Later down the road the single motor with 270 miles of range will come out at $45K.
I’m on the wait list, but my current lease (Equinox EV AWD) is done 11/26. Now I’m thinking I’ll get a nice Q8 Etron in the $35k range, and await the R3. I would spend more for the exact R2 I want, but it’s looking like that won’t happen by that date, and I’m not spending $60-$70k (OTD) unless it’s the exact configuration I want.
 

Bongorivian

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I'd be surprised if they had the starting price any lower than $45k. Heck, that's below the average new car selling price right now. Vehicles that are starting lower have either simpler interiors, or ones with crappier materials.

From everything they have showed about the R2, $45k starting is quite a good (and reasonable!) price.
Good discussion here. Also, Rivian will experience stiffer near term competition from GM/Ford who used a sleight of hand through their financing arms to continue to deliver the $7500 EV credit on existing inventory (financial arms essentially purchase with money down before the end of September and then can lease in the fourth quarter). This will take away Rivian sales. I think Rivian is trying to put their best face forward but every time they miss their credibility goes down. Honestly, I don’t really see the R2 making the difference because of the RJ price target and even more competition in that vehicle space. I’ve got Rivian stock but …..
I hear you.
 

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Gen(R3)Xer

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Leasing Model 3 until R3X comes out, but now I have an R2 reservation as well.
I’m on the wait list, but my current lease (Equinox EV AWD) is done 11/26. Now I’m thinking I’ll get a nice Q8 Etron in the $35k range, and await the R3. I would spend more for the exact R2 I want, but it’s looking like that won’t happen by that date, and I’m not spending $60-$70k (OTD) unless it’s the exact configuration I want.
There are some great used EV deals. Hard to pass up. Lease deals are crazy too. I’m also waiting for the R3 (2028?), but if Rivian wants to buy out my Model 3 lease and offer me a great deal on an R2 I’d be interested.
 

UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan

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I’m on the wait list, but my current lease (Equinox EV AWD) is done 11/26. Now I’m thinking I’ll get a nice Q8 Etron in the $35k range, and await the R3. I would spend more for the exact R2 I want, but it’s looking like that won’t happen by that date, and I’m not spending $60-$70k (OTD) unless it’s the exact configuration I want.
There are some great used EV deals. Hard to pass up. Lease deals are crazy too. I’m also waiting for the R3 (2028?), but if Rivian wants to buy out my Model 3 lease and offer me a great deal on an R2 I’d be interested.
Because of expiring credit, demand for used EVs went up. But, the credit is now gone, demand and prices for used should come down.
 

eddysales001

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Needs to end up at $40k…. and be profitable to Rivian at that price.

If it's too expensive, people won't buy it. If it's not profitable on a per-unit basis for Rivian to sell (the way R1s were until Gen 2 was in full steam) then it will actually make things worse for Rivian rather than better.
It really depends on the audience you are trying to attract. Are you after the Chevy /ford people or the Audi / Porsche clientele. Back in the day when yuengling beer wanted to expand when a lot of the storied brewery’s were disappearing the next generation brought in a marketing firm and they said raise the price. People relate cheap beer to just that. Raise the price and people looking for premium beer will try it. Now suffice it to say you do need to have a good product.
 

Just Passing By

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I agree it feels aggressive. However, I have faith they’ll get pretty close to 41.5k based on my career in corporate forecasting.

Reasons:

1. They probably already have a good idea on how October deliveries are going to line up. The timing between order placed to delivery probably averages on just under a month.
2. They probably already know how many EDV’s will be delivered in the quarter.
3. They likely pulled back on incentives in Q3 as a way to afford increasing them in Q4. I won’t be surprised if they show significantly different margins in Q3 vs Q4.
There's another component to add to the list.
4. Rivian also know what purchase run rate they have had for people buying R1 rather than leasing. Buyers haven't had a tax credit, so won't have pulled forward purchases for incentive reasons and their purchase won't be influenced by a tax credit or lack of it, leaving just seasonality to forecast.
 

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The price of a vehicle, any more, really isn't the buying decision factor. The number one is the monthly payment amount for most shoppers.

If the R2 Launch Edition could be had for $499/month (obviously a lease), then it will do well. I just read that one in five (20%) of all new car payments are above $1k/month. Average is over $700/month. Many people are opting for 84 months loan - yikes! No wonder lease is popular.

For those that actually buys the vehicle (myself included) most likely don't like car payments and/or keeps the vehicle for a long time (well beyond 5 yrs). Lease doesn't make much sense to this group.
 

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Just Passing By

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Good discussion here. Also, Rivian will experience stiffer near term competition from GM/Ford who used a sleight of hand through their financing arms to continue to deliver the $7500 EV credit on existing inventory (financial arms essentially purchase with money down before the end of September and then can lease in the fourth quarter). This will take away Rivian sales.
Why will the Ford/GM strategy influence/take away sales of R1? Which of their vehicle models? If your comment was reference R2 then Rivian are unlikely to be selling high numbers of R2 before 2H26, even if R2 starts ramping production in 1Q26. I hope they are able to ramp aggressively in 2Q26 because initial demand if not longer term demand is likely to outstrip supply anyway. It seems very unlikely either Ford or GM will still have the cost benefit you describe by even 2Q26 unless they are having trouble selling those vehicles anyway.
I think Rivian is trying to put their best face forward but every time they miss their credibility goes down. Honestly, I don’t really see the R2 making the difference because of the RJ price target and even more competition in that vehicle space. I’ve got Rivian stock but …..
This seems a really bizarre take and seems more like something a troll or stock shorter would write. Yes there will be ICE and BEV vehicles at similar price points to Rivian R2 offerings. Thing is there have always been competing manufacturers with competing models at a wide range of price points in the ICE market, but everyone has different ideas on what they want from a vehicle beyond just its price, which is why we have had all the different offerings in the market for many decades. Nothing changes just because we now also have BEV.
 

Just Passing By

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I am somewhat bemused by the angst being expressed by multiple posters regarding demand for R2 and its pricing. Don't people look at MSRPs and specs for any other vehicles to put things in perspective?

Some ICE examples.
  1. Honda Pilot 2025 starting prices Sport/EX-L 2WD from $40.2k to $45.4k; Trailsport 4WD from $49.4k
  2. Toyota Rav 4 PHEV 2025 starting price $44.8k
  3. Toyota 4Runner SR5 2WD 2025 starting price $41.3k; TRD Sport 2WD $47.8k; TRD Offroad 4WD $49.7k
Some will stick with ICE or maybe choose less capable off road BEV options but these 2025 price points certainly suggest that R2 is directly competing without subsidies with other vehicles that might be cross shopped. Just to note we also need to look a little deeper in many cases to see how vehicles match up. For example if you want a 4Runner with something approaching a 360 deg view option then it looks like the 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium is required and that starts at $55.5k!
 

mkhuffman

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I am somewhat bemused by the angst being expressed by multiple posters regarding demand for R2 and its pricing. Don't people look at MSRPs and specs for any other vehicles to put things in perspective?

Some ICE examples.
  1. Honda Pilot 2025 starting prices Sport/EX-L 2WD from $40.2k to $45.4k; Trailsport 4WD from $49.4k
  2. Toyota Rav 4 PHEV 2025 starting price $44.8k
  3. Toyota 4Runner SR5 2WD 2025 starting price $41.3k; TRD Sport 2WD $47.8k; TRD Offroad 4WD $49.7k
Some will stick with ICE or maybe choose less capable off road BEV options but these 2025 price points certainly suggest that R2 is directly competing without subsidies with other vehicles that might be cross shopped. Just to note we also need to look a little deeper in many cases to see how vehicles match up. For example if you want a 4Runner with something approaching a 360 deg view option then it looks like the 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium is required and that starts at $55.5k!
Not arguing with your logic but the competition is well known by the consumer and well regarded from a quality and reliability perspective. It will take years for Rivian to achieve the brand awareness and quality expectations Honda and Toyota enjoy. Years, dude.

Rivian needs to significantly undercut their price point to get noticed and to convince people to take a chance on a unknown manufacturer. They can't match them. They need to beat them.

They need to be much cheaper. If they can't do it, they will really struggle to compete. You know Toyota gets a premium over well established competition because of their quality reputation, right? How can a competitor nobody has even heard of beat that? How? Price? That seems like the only realistic lever to me.
 

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Not arguing with your logic but the competition is well known by the consumer and well regarded from a quality and reliability perspective. It will take years for Rivian to achieve the brand awareness and quality expectations Honda and Toyota enjoy. Years, dude.

Rivian needs to significantly undercut their price point to get noticed and to convince people to take a chance on a unknown manufacturer. They can't match them. They need to beat them.

They need to be much cheaper. If they can't do it, they will really struggle to compete. You know Toyota gets a premium over well established competition because of their quality reputation, right? How can a competitor nobody has even heard of beat that? How? Price? That seems like the only realistic lever to me.
If the basis of your argument was correct that people won't pay premium or even similar prices for Rivian vehicles, then Rivian wouldn't be on track to sell 40k vehicles in 2025, most of them R1s at price points ranging from ~$75k to $125k+. There are plenty of established brand luxury ICE vehicles, including off road options, at these price points and lower and yet Rivian still sells their vehicles. That shouldn't be possible if your premise is correct.

The new Tacoma and 4Runner 2.4 liter turbo 4 vehicles are not what they were in the past. One example, much more hard plastic, even on expensive trim levels at $55k+. In addition, Toyota's reputation has been impacted by vehicle quality issues including a major engine recall on the Tundra that people had to fight for before Toyota responded. The Toyota/dealer sales model, especially at the Tacoma Trailhunter level was the final straw that had me move to considering other options.

But if we were to take your point further then the poor quality/reliability of Jaguar Land Rover/Range Rover, something the brand has struggled to shake off, surely means that it shouldn't be possible for them to achieve the 430k+WW shipments in fiscal 2024 that they did achieve, up 22% from the prior year.

The TL;DR is that it isn't and never was just about price in the auto market.
 

Hauser37

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I have owned 4 tesla's in past 10 years. the Rivian is far superior IMO and the guidance on range is much more accurate whereas the Tesla was way too optimistic. Other than some learning curve issues it's the best car I have owned so far which includes several Mercedes,Lexus and other high end cars.
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