R2 buyers - will you wait for gen 3 hardware (including LiDAR)?

[mkhuffman]

It seems to me we should separate Lidar/Gen3 and its benefits for Rivian from the benefits for the customer, when considering what premium, if any, Rivian choose to charge for its inclusion.

Rivian will charge either $2.5k one off, or $49.99 monthly, for the Automony+ package. This is the first signal that Rivian don't intend to make autonomy expensive when compared to the premiums Tesla has charged for FSD/Autopilot. Rivian see Autonomy+ as a critical differentiator in the auto industry and want to make it attainable.

The second much more important reason why Rivian won't charge a large premium, if any, for including the Lidar/Gen3 is that it provides them with Ground Truth. This collection of data enables the acceleration of Rivian's autonomy solution, helping to more rapidly close the gap with Tesla and create a larger gap faster versus anyone else. It is critical for them as outlined in the previously linked article on RivianTrackr and other reports directly quoting RJ.

They cannot charge what Tesla charges. Rivian's autonomy system is far behind Tesla. I am totally expecting Rivian to increase the price when they reach parity with Tesla, and especially when they are better than Tesla. If they ever are.

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[AdventureR1S]

to those holding off, are you canceling your reservation or going to keep it until configuration is available? I think I want to see the options on R2 before I hold off for gen 3 and cancel my deposit.

 

[SANZC02]

Didn’t Rivian say that it would be a standalone option priced similarly to a paint color up charge?

Hardware will be in the vehicle, it is cost of subscription they were referring to as being similar to a paint upgrade.

 

[timf]

to those holding off, are you canceling your reservation or going to keep it until configuration is available? I think I want to see the options on R2 before I hold off for gen 3 and cancel my deposit.

I don't see any reason to cancel a reservation now. Rivian let R1 reservation holders wait years until their desired configurations were available, so why wouldn't they for R2? If they get to the point where they force a decision before the gen 3 hardware is available, maybe I'd cancel then. I'm fine with holding onto my R1S for an extra year if it lets me skip a generation of technology.

 

[binx]

As much as I feel like Rivian is starting to trip over themselves with Gen2/Gen3, it actually might be perfect for my situation and maybe others. Ideally I want a gently used R2 late 2026/early 2027 and don’t care much about self driving. If Gen3 does actually launch late 2026, it could lead to some early adopters ditching their Gen2s sooner than typical. Could be some deals out there to be had that were otherwise pretty unlikely.

 

[Just Passing By]

They cannot charge what Tesla charges. Rivian's autonomy system is far behind Tesla. I am totally expecting Rivian to increase the price when they reach parity with Tesla, and especially when they are better than Tesla. If they ever are.

All of which may be true, but the only relevant point is that Rivian won't be charging a premium for Lidar/Gen 3 for at least a couple of years because they need a lot of R2s on the road to collect the data. This is the point I was making in response to the comments about how Rivian would be charging significant premiums for Lidar/Gen 3 when it becomes available.

 

[wnealisr226]

It's not a speculation:

https://insideevs.com/news/782042/rivian-r2-wont-lidar-retrofit/

Jump to conclusions much?

 

[mkhuffman]

All of which may be true, but the only relevant point is that Rivian won't be charging a premium for Lidar/Gen 3 for at least a couple of years because they need a lot of R2s on the road to collect the data. This is the point I was making in response to the comments about how Rivian would be charging significant premiums for Lidar/Gen 3 when it becomes available.

Maybe.

 

[Dohmar]

Considering Australia isn't going to get R2 until after the UK, I expect it'll be Gen4 or 5 by the time I'm able to buy one

 

[kanundrum]

Just give me my damn R2 meow

 

[TexasBob]

FWIW, we have here on this site mostly a very loyal group of Rivian apologists (including me most of the time!). If ~80% of the folks here are in a "wait for the upgrade" mindset (me too), you can be sure the typical R2 buyer will do the same. Rivian has a challenge of its own making.

Also, for those who say the average person does not know anything about lidar etc, that may be true but that does not insulate Rivian. The day R2 is released for the media, every R2 review that shows up on YouTube and TikTok is going to ask "should you wait until Rivian upgrades its tech later this year?" And the average person will know. Rivian needs to launch allowing people to buy the package and upgrade later or it will be not good. My 2c.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Having driven a bit over 40 miles with UHF on my gen2 r1s, I am now an expert.

For me, there is no reason to wait for gen3 and the lidar package until Rivian actually enables their personal L4. UHF worked on the muddy dirt road I drove down. It worked on the highway transition where Driver+ and Autonomy+ would cut out. It worked on roads where the lines were snow covered (but it did stop me from using Spicy mode). It didn't follow a car that started drifting out of the lane. It reliably nagged me when I wasn't paying enough attention. It warned me ahead of time when it was going to drop out from the road ahead being too sharp.

The only thing that might change my mind is if they require gen3 before enabling it for towing. But I suspect the R2 isn't going to have enough towing capacity to pull my trailers anyway, so that's a moot point.

 

[sparked]

All of which may be true, but the only relevant point is that Rivian won't be charging a premium for Lidar/Gen 3 for at least a couple of years because they need a lot of R2s on the road to collect the data. This is the point I was making in response to the comments about how Rivian would be charging significant premiums for Lidar/Gen 3 when it becomes available.

It's taking a while to develop the software to take advantage of even Gen 2 so there may not even be a big Gen 3 difference initially. One more reason I can't see any significant lidar premium since it's not doing anything significant for customers till the software is ready.

 

[TexasBob]

Having driven a bit over 40 miles with UHF on my gen2 r1s, I am now an expert.

For me, there is no reason to wait for gen3 and the lidar package until Rivian actually enables their personal L4. UHF worked on the muddy dirt road I drove down. It worked on the highway transition where Driver+ and Autonomy+ would cut out. It worked on roads where the lines were snow covered (but it did stop me from using Spicy mode). It didn't follow a car that started drifting out of the lane. It reliably nagged me when I wasn't paying enough attention. It warned me ahead of time when it was going to drop out from the road ahead being too sharp.

The only thing that might change my mind is if they require gen3 before enabling it for towing. But I suspect the R2 isn't going to have enough towing capacity to pull my trailers anyway, so that's a moot point.

I am not waiting for the LiDAR I am waiting for the 5x more powerful / future-proofed computer. To me, that is the main value along with the AI edge computing device in vehicle. LiDAR is just icing, the compute power is the cake.

But glad to hear positive review in the UHF. Planning a road trip next week in the Dune!

 

[Yota2R1T]

Didn't vote...willing to wait for R3X that can drive itself to pick me up at the other trailhead end.

Hadn't thought of that! What a great use-case!

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