Rival: 2026 BMW iX3 reviews are impressive... R2 has its work cut out

[DuoRivians]

Depends on which benefit you seek. I don't care about the price. I would load up a car with most available content (other than ADAS features). From my info and colleagues in the automotive battery industry, I feel safer with the lower risk chemistry of LFP vs NMC in my garage. I'd pay extra for that.

EDIT: The directly competitive Volvo EX60 about to be revealed will allow the choice of LFP, which is very on-brand for Volvo's emphasis on safety.

CATL has gotten really good with their batteries. Personally, I’d trust their batteries

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[Sportstick]

CATL has gotten really good with their batteries. Personally, I’d trust their batteries

I'd love to know more. How have they conqured dendrite growth on anodes, even from perfect batteries when new? What have they done to contain the otherwise inevitable runaway reaction when a NMC battery is punctured in impact or from overheating? If they have figured this out, this may be new news worth reconsidering. Do you have any sources? Thanks in advance.

 

[DuoRivians]

I'd love to know more. How have they conqured dendrite growth on anodes, even from perfect batteries when new? What have they done to contain the otherwise inevitable runaway reaction when a NMC battery is punctured in impact or from overheating? If they have figured this out, this may be new news worth reconsidering. Do you have any sources? Thanks in advance.

Inevitable? Even among the cars on the road now, EV battery fires are exceedingly rare, including after accidents

 

[mkg3]

When I look or think about the 400 mile range per EPA loop capability, I am not thinking about actually being able to drive 400 miles.

The published range simply says there is enough head room in the on-board energy supply to be able to drive at higher speeds or perform spirted driving with a given EV. Anyone who has driven an EV hard knows that the energy consumption is ridiculously high and any published range data is completely meaningless.

In the case of the iX3, if EPA 400 miles is based on the traditional EPA loop, then the real world driving at 80mph on the freeways, driving exuberantly on the twisties or up to the mountain and back might result in 300 miles and probably less.

Published vs actual in most cases has nothing to do with manufacturer accuracy or boosting their numbers; rather than, it has more to do with how the vehicle is driven in various conditions and pace, especially compared to the EPA loop.

All one has to do to understand the energy consumption rate change is to go drive the Rivian hard and fast for 30 minutes or so and see how much energy it has consumed.

 

[Sportstick]

Inevitable? Even among the cars on the road now, EV battery fires are exceedingly rare, including after accidents

Again, my writing may not be as clear as I hoped. Fires are rare, and the battery is not always punctured in every accident, but if the NMC battery is actually punctured, the results are dramatic, producing tremendous heat far beyond a comparable LFP. I was shown comparison videos from lab tests and they are striking. This link is not the test I originally saw, but the results are similar.

 

[mkg3]

I'd love to know more. How have they conqured dendrite growth on anodes, even from perfect batteries when new? What have they done to contain the otherwise inevitable runaway reaction when a NMC battery is punctured in impact or from overheating? If they have figured this out, this may be new news worth reconsidering. Do you have any sources? Thanks in advance.

Introduced at the CES. Production SSB.

400 Wh/kg. Full charge in five minutes. Designed for 100,000 cycles. 
Lower cost than lithium ion.
https://www.donutlab.com/battery/

 

[DuoRivian]

When I look or think about the 400 mile range per EPA loop capability, I am not thinking about actually being able to drive 400 miles.

The published range simply says there is enough head room in the on-board energy supply to be able to drive at higher speeds or perform spirted driving with a given EV. Anyone who has driven an EV hard knows that the energy consumption is ridiculously high and any published range data is completely meaningless.

In the case of the iX3, if EPA 400 miles is based on the traditional EPA loop, then the real world driving at 80mph on the freeways, driving exuberantly on the twisties or up to the mountain and back might result in 300 miles and probably less.

Published vs actual in most cases has nothing to do with manufacturer accuracy or boosting their numbers; rather than, it has more to do with how the vehicle is driven in various conditions and pace, especially compared to the EPA loop.

All one has to do to understand the energy consumption rate change is to go drive the Rivian hard and fast for 30 minutes or so and see how much energy it has consumed.

It is EPA route which is the only standardized way to do it. Of course rangers less if going highway speeds, as it is for all electric vehicles. 400 miles is impressive against the competition which is the key metric.

If you are concerned then I assume other than a Lucid Air you will buy nothing since every other EV has a shorter EPA range.

 

[M3_R2]

I know Tesla's disconnect the high voltage batteries if the airbags deploy. Safety has gotten better and first responders are well trained. Punctures don't happen in your garage. Thermal runaway due to internal issues is much better managed in modern packs such as in the BMW iX3. It is designed to prevent the cells from overheating, stop a failing cell from triggering adjacent cells and detect/suppress runaway early if it begins. The latter is the biggest leap forward with sensor technology being a cornerstone of EV safety. (temp/voltage/pressure/gas/impedence - all tied into the BMS)

Modern packs have chemically safer cell designs. Improved separators, electrolytes with flame retarders, cathode coatings that reduce thermal activity, lower cobalt content reduces thermal reactivity.

They are dramatically safer than earlier designs due to combining prevention, detection and suppression in a multi layered approach.

 

[DuoRivian]

I know Tesla's disconnect the high voltage batteries if the airbags deploy. Safety has gotten better and first responders are well trained. Punctures don't happen in your garage. Thermal runaway due to internal issues is much better managed in modern packs such as in the BMW iX3. It is designed to prevent the cells from overheating, stop a failing cell from triggering adjacent cells and detect/suppress runaway early if it begins. The latter is the biggest leap forward with sensor technology being a cornerstone of EV safety. (temp/voltage/pressure/gas/impedence - all tied into the BMS)

Modern packs have chemically safer cell designs. Improved separators, electrolytes with flame retarders, cathode coatings that reduce thermal activity, lower cobalt content reduces thermal reactivity.

They are dramatically safer than earlier designs due to combining prevention, detection and suppression in a multi layered approach.

Good explanation but some people will worry endlessly over extremely rare occurrence rather than be concerned with more common but equally life threatening events like driving or flying on a plane.

 

[Sportstick]

Good explanation but some people will worry endlessly over extremely rare occurrence rather than be concerned with more common but equally life threatening events like driving or flying on a plane.

Risk is incremental and accepted if the benefits outweigh them. I don't perceive the benefit of a 2026 model with NMC battery to replace my 2024 same-sized X3 as outweighing the risk. I'd like to be free of gas stations and oil company whimsical pricing, but I certainly do not need to be. So, I can be patient or find alternatives that better match my comfort level. The benefit of air travel or the lost opportunity by not going outweighs the risk of modern aviation. Each assessment is an independent event and the factors may result in different decisions to proceed or not.

I don't doubt that current NMC batteries have improved. That's a usual occurrence with any technology. Apparently, they have satisfied the threshold for many, including many here. They have not for me, based on battery industry colleague advice and especially after watching the facial reactions from the BMW manager today when I asked specific questions he could not address satisfactorily.

Lastly, not all rare occurrences are of equal significance. A rare fire that can be extinguished gets a very different analysis than one that essentially cannot as it rather uniquely propogates its own oxygen, with most fire professionals advising to "just run" from your home.

We may never agree on where to draw the risk assessment line vs. benefits. I respect your personal choice and presume reciprocity for mine.

 

[sparked]

I spoke with BMW engineering/tech folks from Germany at CES today. Despite what they said last year, that a choice of NMC or LFP would exist, they today reported that the American BMW subsidiary has since told them LFP was not needed, even as option, as range is the most important attribute, so they are all-in on NMC.

iX3 is production constrained anyways so I think it's fine to launch NMC only in the US market. It simplifies production. There's a clear demand for range and they will have first mover advantage for a more mass market vehicle. They can always add other options as production gets less constrained and they understand demand.

 

[mkhuffman]

A we

Introduced at the CES. Production SSB.

400 Wh/kg. Full charge in five minutes. Designed for 100,000 cycles. 
Lower cost than lithium ion.
https://www.donutlab.com/battery/

A website with no address, no phone number. It looks like a scam to me.

 

[Sportstick]

iX3 is production constrained anyways so I think it's fine to launch NMC only in the US market. It simplifies production. There's a clear demand for range and they will have first mover advantage for a more mass market vehicle. They can always add other options as production gets less constrained and they understand demand.

All completely good and valid points from their perspective. Meanwhile, Google AI is now reporting this about R2.

 

[DuoRivian]

All completely good and valid points from their perspective. Meanwhile, Google AI is now reporting this about R2.

Seems reasonable to use the cheaper chemistry for the cheapest models and reserve the more expensive and longer range batteries for the more expensive models. Rivian is very focused on cost as they strive to make a profit.
We will see what BMW do with the shorter range “40” model, details of which are due this year for 2027 sale.

 

[fresca10]

800v, 400kw charging with 400 mile epa range. Great bones to the car

Ive got an iX and considering the iX3. simply for the range. That was what drew me to Vivian, but now there is an option out there with equal range, but price tag will be higher

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