2 weeks with PaaK that actually works........I'm still not 100% sold; but closer.

[Donald Stanfield]

For me, having a car unlock system that doesn't work properly 10% of the time is something that I would consider an utter failure of a design! It's amazing what people will tolerate when there was an obvious other design that could have been chosen - a design that's on millions(billions?) of cars and works flawlessly 99.99999% of the time.

Fail is having to wait 30 extra seconds for it to unlock. That's hardly a hardship, and I still prefer that over having to carry a stupid FOB around.

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[captainjp]

For me, having a car unlock system that doesn't work properly 10% of the time is something that I would consider an utter failure of a design! It's amazing what people will tolerate when there was an obvious other design that could have been chosen - a design that's on millions(billions?) of cars and works flawlessly 99.99999% of the time.

For sure. Tesla has some of the worst performance in this area. The forums of full of threads on this topic.

 

[2kwik4u]

Spoke too soon. It's broke again. Two days, multiple resets of both phone and truck. Deleted and re installed the key. Broke.

What a PIA this truck is. For fucks sake, if it would just be consistent at either working or not. I'm over it, back to the fob I go.

This is a new error on the phone as well.

Also, it just completely locked me out in the grocery store parking lot. Card, fob, phone, none of it worked. Had to walk back in the building with groceries and call Rivian to unlock it. No big deal, it's only 23deg and 20mph winds outside.

What a PIA this thing is.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Spoke too soon. It's broke again. Two days, multiple resets of both phone and truck. Deleted and re installed the key. Broke.

What a PIA this truck is. For fucks sake, if it would just be consistent at either working or not. I'm over it, back to the fob I go.

This is a new error on the phone as well.

Also, it just completely locked me out in the grocery store parking lot. Card, fob, phone, none of it worked. Had to walk back in the building with groceries and call Rivian to unlock it. No big deal, it's only 23deg and 20mph winds outside.

What a PIA this thing is.

I didn't know where was a reader in the door area as well.

 

[mkhuffman]

I didn't know where was a reader in the door area as well.

I think that is just Gen1.

Spoke too soon. It's broke again. Two days, multiple resets of both phone and truck. Deleted and re installed the key. Broke.

What a PIA this truck is. For fucks sake, if it would just be consistent at either working or not. I'm over it, back to the fob I go.

This is a new error on the phone as well.

Also, it just completely locked me out in the grocery store parking lot. Card, fob, phone, none of it worked. Had to walk back in the building with groceries and call Rivian to unlock it. No big deal, it's only 23deg and 20mph winds outside.

What a PIA this thing is.

That totally sucks.

Curious - you were not able to use the app on your phone to unlock the truck? What a disaster, IMO. This kind of thing happened to me with my Mach-e, but so far not with my R1.

 

[2kwik4u]

That totally sucks.

Curious - you were not able to use the app on your phone to unlock the truck? What a disaster, IMO. This kind of thing happened to me with my Mach-e, but so far not with my R1.

App didn't work. Just kept saying "waking vehicle" then nothing happened. It does this quite often when attempting to do anything from the app.

If the truck decides to sleep, for whatever reason, the app is useless to control the truck.

I do have some nice videos of me trying to get into the truck though, as gear guard mocked me the entire time. You know, to add insult to injury and all.

 

[Rade]

Now if they could just resolve my trucks narcoleptic tendencies. That thing sleeps harder than a cat on a full belly!

 

[beatle]

Mine seemed to have been improving in Nov-Dec, but is back to its old tricks of not being able to unlock without getting the app out. This is almost exclusively a problem at home, however.

The truck does wake a lot more consistently for HVAC commands now though. This time last year it was annoying not to be able to take advantage of the preheat function. It does still fumble additional commands like when I want to enable the heated seat and steering wheel, claiming that I have limited connectivity.

 

[mkhuffman]

Prior to 46 it wasn't very reliable when in my back pocket. Now it unlocks even in my back pocket.

But post 46 it has also given me "key not detected" when sitting in the cab (even after successfully unlocking the truck). I found that placing the phone on the left charging pad immediately detects the key and I can start the truck.

I was hoping 46.30 would correct the issue but I have had it occur since 46.30 as well.

 

[2kwik4u]

I found that placing the phone on the left charging pad immediately detects the key and I can start the truck.

Gen 2 trucks have the NFC in that space right? I assume yours is a Gen 2?

This morning I walked out, truck was awake and preheating per schedule. Doors already unlocked from the night before (proximity disabled at home). I unplug and get in. No key detected. Get out, go inside and grab the fob. Instantly works and I can pull out of the garage.

While I'm waiting on the garage door to close, I figured I would just take a second and go ahead and remove the "nearby devices" permission in the app, having found that the truck gets confused if it finds more than a single key at a time in the past. As soon as I disable that permission the Rivian app throw a notification up of "Vehicle no longer detected". As if it had somehow connected to the truck while I was sitting there, and the disabling of permissions made it lose connection. Weird.

Anywho, I'm back to the fob. It worked to get me to the office this morning, and that's fine. I spent the drive in thinking about moving back to a fully analog vehicle. It occurred to me, the mental gymnastics of "Will my PaaK work and let me in the truck" is an almost identical workload of "I wonder if my battery is dead", or "I wonder if that water pump is going to fail soon" in any of my previous ICE vehicles. Like, I'm on constant "alert" to if it's working or not, and don't really get to enjoy any of the convenience of it. So, if I move back to something with 2k moving parts, that's wildly inefficient, will I honestly miss much?!? Considering this truck has been in service 11 times in 15mo, I don't think maintenance will really be any bigger of an issue. About the only thing I could think of that I would "legitimately miss' is the lack of having to stand in the cold to add fuel to the vehicle. I think there's a really strong chance that a "software defined vehicle", well, just isn't for me.

 

[mkhuffman]

Gen 2 trucks have the NFC in that space right? I assume yours is a Gen 2?

This morning I walked out, truck was awake and preheating per schedule. Doors already unlocked from the night before (proximity disabled at home). I unplug and get in. No key detected. Get out, go inside and grab the fob. Instantly works and I can pull out of the garage.

While I'm waiting on the garage door to close, I figured I would just take a second and go ahead and remove the "nearby devices" permission in the app, having found that the truck gets confused if it finds more than a single key at a time in the past. As soon as I disable that permission the Rivian app throw a notification up of "Vehicle no longer detected". As if it had somehow connected to the truck while I was sitting there, and the disabling of permissions made it lose connection. Weird.

Anywho, I'm back to the fob. It worked to get me to the office this morning, and that's fine. I spent the drive in thinking about moving back to a fully analog vehicle. It occurred to me, the mental gymnastics of "Will my PaaK work and let me in the truck" is an almost identical workload of "I wonder if my battery is dead", or "I wonder if that water pump is going to fail soon" in any of my previous ICE vehicles. Like, I'm on constant "alert" to if it's working or not, and don't really get to enjoy any of the convenience of it. So, if I move back to something with 2k moving parts, that's wildly inefficient, will I honestly miss much?!? Considering this truck has been in service 11 times in 15mo, I don't think maintenance will really be any bigger of an issue. About the only thing I could think of that I would "legitimately miss' is the lack of having to stand in the cold to add fuel to the vehicle. I think there's a really strong chance that a "software defined vehicle", well, just isn't for me.

All the car makers (except Slate, LOL) are trying to go down the software defined vehicle path. My wife's Grand Cherokee has OTA update capabilities, and the truck has received a couple in the two years we have had it. The stupid truck keeps forgetting our seat positions. It is a known bug on the Jeep forum, but Jeep Service has no idea about the problem - of course. On my next oil change I am going to try to get them to look at it again. It is super annoying.

Just making the point that software bugs will probably exist on just about any new vehicle you buy. So if you really want to get away from it, you will probably have to go back a few years and buy a gently used vehicle.

Personally I am on board with the "software defined vehicle" train. (BTW - I hate that term, "software defined". Maybe if we can turn it into an acronym, like SDV, it will be less annoying. I mean, my tires are not software defined. Neither is my steering wheel. Whatever...) I like how they can break something with an OTA update, and fix it with a later OTA update. So cool.

But seriously, I like how my truck keeps getting better. I don't think they owe it to me to make it better, and so I appreciate it every time it happens. And so far, my truck has gotten better since I purchased it, less one new PaaK issue that isn't a big deal right now. If it gets worse, like it locks me out in the rain with my hands full, I will probably feel differently.

If all I have to do is put the phone on the pad to get around the PaaK failure, meh. It is a great truck anyway. Best vehicle I have ever owned.

 

[2kwik4u]

All the car makers (except Slate, LOL) are trying to go down the software defined vehicle path. My wife's Grand Cherokee has OTA update capabilities, and the truck has received a couple in the two years we have had it. The stupid truck keeps forgetting our seat positions. It is a known bug on the Jeep forum, but Jeep Service has no idea about the problem - of course. On my next oil change I am going to try to get them to look at it again. It is super annoying.

Just making the point that software bugs will probably exist on just about any new vehicle you buy. So if you really want to get away from it, you will probably have to go back a few years and buy a gently used vehicle.

I get it. New cars might not be for me then either. Not claiming to be a luddite here, but I think they're less crazy each day!

Current setup in my head is an '08 Audi RS4. About as analog as you can get without straying back to carbureted territory. Pair that with an '18 Lexus GX470 and I have two cars, without updates, and without overly complicated systems that are "breakable" via OTA updates. Also, only have about 60% the cost of a Rivian in those two, combined. Leaves a lot of budget for fuel/maintenance.

Personally I am on board with the "software defined vehicle" train. (BTW - I hate that term, "software defined". Maybe if we can turn it into an acronym, like SDV, it will be less annoying. I mean, my tires are not software defined. Neither is my steering wheel. Whatever...) I like how they can break something with an OTA update, and fix it with a later OTA update. So cool.

But seriously, I like how my truck keeps getting better. I don't think they owe it to me to make it better, and so I appreciate it every time it happens. And so far, my truck has gotten better since I purchased it, less one new PaaK issue that isn't a big deal right now. If it gets worse, like it locks me out in the rain with my hands full, I will probably feel differently.

We diverge a little here. The OTA's are neat, but they're often changing things that are more sizzle than steak. The maps in the drivers screen is a great example. It sure looks neat, but doesn't have a ton of practical impact on daily driving, or even road trips really. The only OTA that I think I really have gotten a GOOD benefit from was whichever one fixed the rear motor disconnect engage/disengage tuning. That was a big complaint of mine that is now hardly noticeable. The rest have been niche features, that again, are fun to look at and present interesting things, but don't provide any real additional functionality. The "what's new" juice isn't worth the "what broke" squeeze.

If all I have to do is put the phone on the pad to get around the PaaK failure, meh. It is a great truck anyway. Best vehicle I have ever owned.

I would 100% be on board with that too. NFC reader in the console. Honestly, ANY hardware is CONSISTENT would be an improvement.

IMO, luxury is built of capability, reliability, and trust. Rivian has the first, but barely the second or third. It's wildly capable, but I can't trust it to reliably let me have physical access at the grocery store.

I will agree it's one of the best vehicles I've owned. Overall, it's EXCEPTIONALLY hard to find another vehicle with this feature set, that close to this polished. I look at alternatives (which now is really just the Silverado/Sierra since Lightning is cancelled), and it looks/feels half baked compared to the Rivian. I can't imagine the service issues if I had the same problems with a Sierra as compared to my Rivian. So, I agree, but dammit, it sure would be nice if it didn't agitate the hell out of me before I even get a chance to drive it every day!

 

[mkhuffman]

We diverge a little here. The OTA's are neat, but they're often changing things that are more sizzle than steak. The maps in the drivers screen is a great example. It sure looks neat, but doesn't have a ton of practical impact on daily driving, or even road trips really. The only OTA that I think I really have gotten a GOOD benefit from was whichever one fixed the rear motor disconnect engage/disengage tuning. That was a big complaint of mine that is now hardly noticeable. The rest have been niche features, that again, are fun to look at and present interesting things, but don't provide any real additional functionality. The "what's new" juice isn't worth the "what broke" squeeze.

Good points.

Thinking about it some more, the most significant improvement for me is probably the increase in roads covered by "hands free" driving.

That said, there is still a lot of improvement needed before it is useful on all roads. On the highway it is great, but yesterday I was testing it on a side road, and it kept slowing down way too much for curves and intersections. I got frustrated and turned it off. I like manual drive anyway.

If they deliver L3 hands off driving on par with what Tesla offers, I will be very happy. Still not sure they can do it, though.

My philosophy is "you get what you paid for when you drove it home". So anything that improves what I already paid for is a bonus.

Edit: I forgot about the DCF charging performance improvement. That is probably the improvement I am must happy about.

 

[2kwik4u]

Good points.
Edit: I forgot about the DCF charging performance improvement. That is probably the improvement I am must happy about.

I didn't get much of a bump from this update (Gen 1 Large was already quite good), but I'll give you the win as a tangible improvement from an OTA.

I agree, strongly, with the "You get what you paid for when you drove it home".......and I'll add on "I liked it the way it was when I drove it home". So it's a double edged sword on the OTA front. If it's all improvements, then that's great, but it's often a change for the sake of change without a ton of real usable benefits, which takes some of the power away. Even more so when it's largely just aesthetic updates/changes.

I do think, that the current direction of Rivian toward their own chips, a focus on AI driven software is the wrong direction for a car company. They make really good, arguably great, hardware. They should have more focus there. Improve the manufacturing, improve the vehicle features with more innovative thinking like the gear tunnel, the active damper suspension, and in house motor design/control. I understand they're responding to customer demand, but they're also still defining the sector. I would much rather see EXCELLENT hardware/software integration than MORE integration. I think they're heading too far down the MORE path and not far enough down the EXCELLENT path.

The flip side is Lucid that has mind-boggling brilliant hardware, and some of the worst software out there. I also get it's a balance.

What do I know, just a single product owner, and holder of 4 measly shares in a play account on the side.

 

[rogersmj]

Like, I'm on constant "alert" to if it's working or not, and don't really get to enjoy any of the convenience of it

This, right here, is my biggest issue with this otherwise great vehicle (well, that and the suspension problems) -- the worry about whether or not the software's going to work properly at any given moment for basic stuff like unlocking it. It's like a guarantee that if my hands are full, the truck isn't going to proximity unlock.

I got hit hard by fans when I posted a thread about the litany of software problems I had experienced, and when I noted I was also worried about the inaccurate arrival state of charge bug that some were experiencing (but I had not yet)...well, you'd think I'd just insulted their mothers because I was worried about a bug I hadn't experienced. But that's the entire point...there have been so many issues that of course I'm now untrusting and just waiting for something else to bite me, which results in a less than enjoyable overall experience. Especially after it has been lost, trust has to be earned.

I personally love how much can be done with vehicles in software, it's amazing and I have long believed it is the right direction in principle...but to execute, that means you need to have a super tight ship when it comes to SDLC/testing, and you need to engineer it in a way that core functions are basically failproof. You have to be a software company, but not with the "move fast and break stuff" philosophy that dominates non-critical SaaS businesses.

The flip side is Lucid that has mind-boggling brilliant hardware, and some of the worst software out there. I also get it's a balance.

Oh I know...it would be amazing if we could have Lucid's chassis/suspension/packaging engineering, Tesla's software engineering, and Rivian design/engineering for all the other bits

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