20" Inch Best 20" Tire for Max Efficiency (R1S): On-Road with Occasional Snow Driving

[56huck]

Hi all, I’m an engineer at Goodyear that helped develop the Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT for Rivian. This tire performs well in a wide variety of conditions, including snow (3PMSF rated). Efficiency was a top design priority. Updating the software from the OE 34” AT to the Goodyear 33” tire improved range from 369 to 385 miles on my R1T. @DayTripping and others have documented impressive efficiency numbers with the Goodyear tire in this thread… https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-20-factory-at-tires-saving.37522/post-753458

The thread link doesn’t work for me.
I’m seriously considering these tires but wonder about the size difference from my OEM. The Michelins also look appealing. I have found any direct efficiency comparisons between them.

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The thread link doesn’t work for me.
I’m seriously considering these tires but wonder about the size difference from my OEM. The Michelins also look appealing. I have found any direct efficiency comparisons between them.

It's a factory size. Why would it be a problem? And because it's a factory offering, there's even a software profile made specifically for it, based on their countless hours of testing and captured data. Size difference account for distance traveled per revolution and calibration of speed, distance traveled per duration of time. And that's adjusted when you change your tire profile in vehicle settings; through tire swap feature.

All tire sizes offered by Rivian thus far, as original equipment:
275/60R20 ≈ 33" OD
275/65R20 ≈ 34.1" OD
275/55R21 ≈ 32.9" OD
275/50R22 ≈ 32.8" OD
305/45R22 ≈ 32.8" OD (gen 2 quad motor, wider rear tire in staggered width sport/street performance option)

Tire size calculator and comparison calculators: https://tiresize.com/

 

[56huck]

It's a factory size. Why would it be a problem? And because it's a factory offering, there's even a software profile made specifically for it, based on their countless hours of testing and captured data. Size difference account for distance traveled per revolution and calibration of speed, distance traveled per duration of time. And that's adjusted when you change your tire profile in vehicle settings; through tire swap feature.

Good to know, thank you
Have you seen any efficiency comparisons between the Goodyear and the Michelin LTX Platinum or M/S2

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Good to know, thank you
Have you seen any efficiency comparisons between the Goodyear and the Michelin LTX Platinum or M/S2

Try forum search using those tire names, you will find anecdotal data from users of each.

 

[Gigabit]

I have rivian 20in rims with Michelin defenders 275/60R20 on a R1t Dual performance and for the last 1500miles I have averaged 2.92 mi/kwh, before I had the 21in with Michelin defenders 275/55R21 and averaged 2.85 mi/kwh

Some notable differences

- The 20in seem to ride smoother
- The 20in seem to be lighter (didnt direct measure, just the struggle factor of mounting them seemed easier)
- The 21 in seemed to have a slight edge on steering response
- The 20in rims have a weird groove around the rim behind the face of the rim that collects water and tends to splatter in the rim after a car wash.
- The 20in rims do seem more efficient (slightly) than the 21s with the same tire type.

In the settings Im using the Wrangler 275/60R20 tire profile (because thats the size of my tire) and the range has been close enough, usually the calculated arrival shows about 1-2 percent less than actual. If it calculated ill arrive at 50%, I actually arrive at 51-52%. This is a generalization and highly depends on the elevation differences and speeds Im traveling at.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Given same width, overall diameter and air pressure, unless constructed with rigid sidewall inserts (run-flats), it’s a given the one meant for smaller wheels would feel smoother and more dampened—because of larger internal air volume. And the one for larger wheels, it’s a given for steering to feel more responsive to input changes—because of shorter sidewall, less flexing and lateral deflection.

Want max efficiency on 20" wheels? Sacrifice 0.51" of ground clearance (if coming from 275/65R20 stock tire), rugged appearance and off-pavement capability—a pure pavement-oriented and eco-oriented all-season tire in 275/60R20.

 

[B Digs]

The thread link doesn’t work for me.
I’m seriously considering these tires but wonder about the size difference from my OEM. The Michelins also look appealing. I have found any direct efficiency comparisons between them.

Sorry for the confusion. Here is the correct link:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...y-at-275-60-20-factory-at-tires-saving.37522/

 

[Zorg]

I have rivian 20in rims with Michelin defenders 275/60R20 on a R1t Dual performance and for the last 1500miles I have averaged 2.92 mi/kwh, before I had the 21in with Michelin defenders 275/55R21 and averaged 2.85 mi/kwh

What weather and speed? Seems very efficient.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

What weather and speed? Seems very efficient.

When you see "Michelin Defender", keep in mind Michelin has [at least?] two models with with that name: Defender XTL Platinum and Defender XLT MS/2. When the differentiator is not mentioned, it could unintentionally mislead. The Platinum is a all-seasoned designed with rugged sidewall look of a AT. For an all-season tire, it's not a particularly efficient tire. In sizes that are compatible with the R1, it's also quite heavy compare to factory offerings.

Platinum:
LT275/65R20 — 58.9 lbs
LT285/60R20 — 59.8 lbs

MS/2:
275/60R20 XL — 39.4 lbs
275/65R20 XL — 42.5 lbs

Stock:
Pirelli Scorpion AT Plus 275/65R20 SL — 48 lbs
Goodyear Territory AT RIV 275/60R20 XL — 42 lbs

 

[Gigabit]

What weather and speed? Seems very efficient.

Im in Southern California so as fair weather as you could likely get. I rarely use the heater and mostly use AC. I drive 3/4 of the miles on the freeway, 1/4 of the miles on the street streets but half the time the freeway is traffic averaging 30-40mph.

Unsungzero brings up a good point, both the 21in and 20in have the Michelin Defender LTX m/s2 tires with approx 10k miles on each.

Currently as of today, the trip computer average says I have gone 1920.5miles and used 640kwh. Not sure how accurate the trip computer is but that's one data point.

 

[jeffguitardavis]

Thanks everyone for all of the great data and perspectives on this! Really appreciate it.

Based on the feedback, I have narrowed it down to the following options in the 275/60/R20 size (the consensus seems to be that sticking with the original size of 275/65/R20 is not the best for efficiency):

• Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
• Michelin Defender LTX MS/2

Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
Pros: Rivian OEM, 3-peak snow rating, bit cheaper
Cons: shorter lifespan, no warranty (I heard this is true about the warranty but I find that surprising)

Michelin Defender LTX MS/2
Pros: great warranty, long lifespan
Cons: not 3-peak rated for snow, not Rivian OEM, bit more expensive

However, here is the side-by-side comparison of those two in TireRack.com (see image). And yes, the Goodyear listed is the Rivian OEM variant. What stands out is that the Michelin is slightly better in all categories.

My guess is that the Michelin is used across many different vehicles so these ratings are a composite across owners of lots of different vehicles. Also a potential factor is that the data in TireRack.com doesn't separate out the feedback from the Goodyear "standard" Wrangler Territory AT and the Goodyear "Rivian" Wrangler Territory AT variant (that's just speculation on my part, though).

However, it is interesting that in every category, the Michelin is a bit better. I was leaning towards the Rivian variant Goodyear but now I am rethinking that based on this data.

It would be awesome to have this side-by-side comparison but have the data for both tires to be filtered to include only Rivian owners. Alas, I don't think that is possible.

In the end, I don't think I can go wrong with either tire since both are better for my use case compared to the stock Pirelli Scorpion ATs I currently have. Just looking for some datapoint that will tip the scale to one or the other of these options.


Thanks,

Jeff

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Thanks everyone for all of the great data and perspectives on this! Really appreciate it.

Based on the feedback, I have narrowed it down to the following options in the 275/60/R20 size (the consensus seems to be that sticking with the original size of 275/65/R20 is not the best for efficiency):

• Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
• Michelin Defender LTX MS/2

Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
Pros: Rivian OEM, 3-peak snow rating, bit cheaper
Cons: shorter lifespan, no warranty (I heard this is true about the warranty but I find that surprising)

Michelin Defender LTX MS/2
Pros: great warranty, long lifespan
Cons: not 3-peak rated for snow, not Rivian OEM, bit more expensive

However, here is the side-by-side comparison of those two in TireRack.com (see image). And yes, the Goodyear listed is the Rivian OEM variant. What stands out is that the Michelin is slightly better in all categories.

My guess is that the Michelin is used across many different vehicles so these ratings are a composite across owners of lots of different vehicles. Also a potential factor is that the data in TireRack.com doesn't separate out the feedback from the Goodyear "standard" Wrangler Territory AT and the Goodyear "Rivian" Wrangler Territory AT variant (that's just speculation on my part, though).

However, it is interesting that in every category, the Michelin is a bit better. I was leaning towards the Rivian variant Goodyear but now I am rethinking that based on this data.

It would be awesome to have this side-by-side comparison but have the data for both tires to be filtered to include only Rivian owners. Alas, I don't think that is possible.

In the end, I don't think I can go wrong with either tire since both are better for my use case compared to the stock Pirelli Scorpion ATs I currently have. Just looking for some datapoint that will tip the scale to one or the other of these options.


Thanks,

Jeff

And user data being somewhat anecdotal… you can’t overthink it. You just have pick one to try and see how it plays out. It’s not as if you are stuck with the choice for the rest of your life.

 

[56huck]

Thanks everyone for all of the great data and perspectives on this! Really appreciate it.

Based on the feedback, I have narrowed it down to the following options in the 275/60/R20 size (the consensus seems to be that sticking with the original size of 275/65/R20 is not the best for efficiency):

• Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
• Michelin Defender LTX MS/2

Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
Pros: Rivian OEM, 3-peak snow rating, bit cheaper
Cons: shorter lifespan, no warranty (I heard this is true about the warranty but I find that surprising)

Michelin Defender LTX MS/2
Pros: great warranty, long lifespan
Cons: not 3-peak rated for snow, not Rivian OEM, bit more expensive

However, here is the side-by-side comparison of those two in TireRack.com (see image). And yes, the Goodyear listed is the Rivian OEM variant. What stands out is that the Michelin is slightly better in all categories.

My guess is that the Michelin is used across many different vehicles so these ratings are a composite across owners of lots of different vehicles. Also a potential factor is that the data in TireRack.com doesn't separate out the feedback from the Goodyear "standard" Wrangler Territory AT and the Goodyear "Rivian" Wrangler Territory AT variant (that's just speculation on my part, though).

However, it is interesting that in every category, the Michelin is a bit better. I was leaning towards the Rivian variant Goodyear but now I am rethinking that based on this data.

It would be awesome to have this side-by-side comparison but have the data for both tires to be filtered to include only Rivian owners. Alas, I don't think that is possible.

In the end, I don't think I can go wrong with either tire since both are better for my use case compared to the stock Pirelli Scorpion ATs I currently have. Just looking for some datapoint that will tip the scale to one or the other of these options.


Thanks,

Jeff

I came to the same conclusions. When I looked at the numbers for wet/dry etc the Michelins were very slightly better (like a couple feet).
I was leaning toward the Michelins. When I went to Americas Tire, they told me Michelin was phasing this tire out so I might not be able to get their tire replacement package. So I went with the Goodyears
In a couple thousand miles, I think I’m getting about 10% better efficiency than the OEM Pirellies, but it’s too early to tell for sure

 

[B Digs]

Thanks everyone for all of the great data and perspectives on this! Really appreciate it.

Based on the feedback, I have narrowed it down to the following options in the 275/60/R20 size (the consensus seems to be that sticking with the original size of 275/65/R20 is not the best for efficiency):

• Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
• Michelin Defender LTX MS/2

Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT (Rivian OEM)
Pros: Rivian OEM, 3-peak snow rating, bit cheaper
Cons: shorter lifespan, no warranty (I heard this is true about the warranty but I find that surprising)

Michelin Defender LTX MS/2
Pros: great warranty, long lifespan
Cons: not 3-peak rated for snow, not Rivian OEM, bit more expensive

However, here is the side-by-side comparison of those two in TireRack.com (see image). And yes, the Goodyear listed is the Rivian OEM variant. What stands out is that the Michelin is slightly better in all categories.

My guess is that the Michelin is used across many different vehicles so these ratings are a composite across owners of lots of different vehicles. Also a potential factor is that the data in TireRack.com doesn't separate out the feedback from the Goodyear "standard" Wrangler Territory AT and the Goodyear "Rivian" Wrangler Territory AT variant (that's just speculation on my part, though).

However, it is interesting that in every category, the Michelin is a bit better. I was leaning towards the Rivian variant Goodyear but now I am rethinking that based on this data.

It would be awesome to have this side-by-side comparison but have the data for both tires to be filtered to include only Rivian owners. Alas, I don't think that is possible.

In the end, I don't think I can go wrong with either tire since both are better for my use case compared to the stock Pirelli Scorpion ATs I currently have. Just looking for some datapoint that will tip the scale to one or the other of these options.


Thanks,

Jeff

TireRack reviews for the Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT are aggregated across all variants of that tire, spanning many different vehicles, trims, and use cases. Because of that, the scores you see are an average of feedback from multiple versions—not the Rivian‑specific design engineered for our trucks.

Also worth noting: OEM‑spec tires typically don’t include mileage warranties, and that’s the case across most brands—not just Goodyear.

 

[abacall]

The Cooper discoverer road and trail AT aren't technically rated for the Rivian, 115H instead of 116H. Max pressure is 45 psi, and that's what I'm running them at.
Installed them and they are fan-damn tastic for snow (3 peak rated) and highway driving. Quiet as hell, look good, good efficiency.
What are people's thoughts on using these for off-road adventures aired down?

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