Am I the only one who thinks anything less than 400mi of range is legacy at this point?

[funnynardo]

To me, it’s a combination of range and charging speed. For the most part, it doesn’t feel like EV with 280-320 miles of range with 400V charging has materially changed from the 2018 Tesla Model 3 technology—something that was out eight years ago. Would have expected much more progress and/or cheaper EVs by now.

technically we do have cheaper and better evs. i have a very early model 3 from early 2018, long range rwd. the car had an epa range of 310 miles and an msrp of 51k, equal to almost 67k in 2026.

a new tesla model 3 premium long range rwd has an epa range of 363 miles at an msrp of 42.5k with a much quieter and softer ride and nicer interior, like with acoustic glass on all windows and ventilated seats, etc. although the charging is still limited to 250kw peak at 400v, the new car also has a heat pump for better efficiency, and other changes. pretty cool to see the decrease in cost even excluding inflation.

the new bmw i3 should have an epa range of around 450 miles at an msrp of around 55k, along with 400kw charging at 800v, which is a great improvement in both range and charging metrics.

bmw also historically underrated their epa range figures (unlike tesla), and it is pretty common to see drivers exceed the epa range, so i would expect some people to get close to 500 miles on a charge in the i3.

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[ptbenic]

Some good comments on this topic, and yes it would have been great if the R2 was in the 400-mile range, but everything is a compromise. That said, 330 is not bad and perfect for everything except long Interstate road trips where one does not want to stop as we all know that going 70mph+ and other factors cuts the range by 20 percent or so. Also not great if camping for a week in the wilderness. I have a R2 on reserve but will not ready to pull the plug just yet. That said, hope others do as I have a lot of Rivian stock. Besides, where the heck is the Canyon Red option -- the launch Green looks good, but the other colors are a bit tame and boring for the adventurer driver!

 

[BannedByTMC]

330 is not bad and perfect for everything except long Interstate road trips

When range actually matters...

 

[Imola.ZHP]

Obviously not.

All those people were right. See the idea is to get as many people to adopt EV's as possible, and shockingly, different people have different needs. Yes, the world is larger than just you and your specific needs.

People like you would hold back the EV industry if OEM's followed your "logic".

Yes, I'm well aware that others needs are different from mine; I live 2.2 non-bike friendly miles from work. We struggle to put 10k on our primary EV per year, the secondary EV, lmao, I have to drive it once per week just to keep the 12v charged.

I own a R1S, with 410 miles of range. I love it, I am never buying an ICE again. I am just saying I want 400+ miles of range with the current construct of temperature, charging availability, and speed of charging.

I missed that you were already an EV owner. Still, I said what I said, people with that "EV's need 2x range what they have now" mentality will never be satisfied they'll just keep wanting 2x.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

mentality will never be satisfied they'll just keep wanting 2x.

And keep complaining OEMs are making cars more and more unaffordable. One is consequence of the another. Round and round it goes. Consumers will never accept their role in it. The insatiable need and egocentrism… Human nature.

 

[BannedByTMC]

And keep complaining OEMs are making cars more and more unaffordable. One is consequence of the another. Round and round it goes. Consumers will never accept their role in it. The insatiable need and egocentrism… Human nature.

'23 GW Quad-Large R1T "Ghost"

Did you forget the "sarcasm" tag? If not, the irony...

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Did you forget the "sarcasm" tag? If not, the irony...

No sarcasm. No irony. I got my gen 1 at original price.

And, if I had not taken a small leap of faith back when TSLA was $80-ish, and back when the public-facing Elon made sense, I would not have been able to afford my '23 R1T.

The fact that I bought my Rivian with TSLA shares, that, is the only ironic thing.

 

[BannedByTMC]

No sarcasm. No irony. I got my gen 1 at original price.

How does that make it better? And it doesn't matter how you paid for it. You bought an expensive EV with a large battery pack to get the range you wanted yet now you're trying to criticize others who want to do the same? Plenty of irony there, and hypocrisy.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

How does that make it better? And it doesn't matter how you paid for it. You bought an expensive EV with a large battery pack to get the range you wanted yet now you're trying to criticize others who want to do the same? Plenty of irony there, and hypocrisy.

Where did I say I am personally complaining about cost of cars or EVs? Where?

Translation and a recap for you: I said people—general sense—do and have complained about rising cost of cars. Read any car blog and look at comments whenever a car is announced with pricing. The one thing you see over and over are people having sticker shock. And there are some who did just that when R2 details and pricing were announced just last week.

If you're going to put words in my mouth, you better pay me very well. Judging by your attempt at a cheap personal attack, I doubt you can afford it.

 

[BannedByTMC]

Where did I say I am personally complaining about cost of cars or EVs? Where?

You were agreeing with someone who falsely claimed that people wanted 2x the range they have now when responding to the OP who simply felt that for him 400 miles was the acceptable minimal amount of range. You equated that false claim to the increasing cost of vehicles. Vehicles in general are getting more expensive, including ICE as well, which has nothing to do with range or pack size, especially as price per kWh has dropped over time. You'll have to excuse me for not following your convoluted "logic".

 

[Zoidz]

You were agreeing with someone who falsely claimed that people wanted 2x the range they have now when responding to the OP who simply felt that for him 400 miles was the acceptable minimal amount of range. You equated that false claim to the increasing cost of vehicles. Vehicles in general are getting more expensive, including ICE as well, which has nothing to do with range or pack size, especially as price per kWh has dropped over time. You'll have to excuse me for not following your convoluted "logic".

Talk about a convoluted comment....

 

[BannedByTMC]

Talk about a convoluted comment....

Which part of ICE's aren't impacted by the price of battery packs was confusing?

 

[SASSquatch]

Range is completely overrated. 400 miles of range means a large, heavy battery pack that reduces the overall efficiency of the vehicle. Less range - smaller and higher efficiency battery and very fast charging is a better bet for most.

It annoys me that Rivian didn't opt for 800v architecture. My GV60P only has 235 miles of EPA rated range. I get closer to 275 in good weather conditions 200 miles in bad weather conditions. But because it is 800v I can get from 10-80% in 18 minutes on a 350 kWh charger when I'm on a road trip and I rarely spend less time than that when I'm taking a pit stop. Otherwise I charge at home and daily range is never a problem.

Some use cases (road warriors, towing, really cold climates) don't lend themselves to EVs without big batteries and maybe for those use cases an efficient hybrid is better anyway.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

When EV's were in the 100 mile range you (or people like you) were saying you need 200 miles of range. When EV's were in the 150 miles range you (or people like you) were saying you need 300 miles of range. When EV's were in the 200 mile range you (or people like you) were saying you need 400 miles of range.

Everyone's use case is different.

My weekly commute for several years was about 200 miles each way, with reliable chargers at both ends but not in the middle.

That became doable with the initial Chevy Bolts' 259-mile range. It wasn't doable before. It still took me about two years to get confident enough to actually buy a fully battery-electric vehicle in 2019.

I agree that most non-buyers could do a lot better with BEVs than they think. I also agree that everyone has different tolerances for uncertainty, and places different values on BEVs' environmental benefits.

Respectfully challenging these differences seems likely to change the world faster than insulting those who disagree with us.

Best to all!

 

[BannedByTMC]

What I find odd is the anger that some people seem to express towards those who want/need a larger pack and more range. I'm perfectly fine with anyone who is happy with a smaller pack and less range. My first EV was a conversion I did myself, it had about 45 miles of range in good conditions and was my daily driver for over 10 years. Of course I still had an ICE as a second vehicle for longer trips.

(I guess technically my firs EV was my avatar which had about 6 miles of range with lead acid, now upgraded to lithium)

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