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Are Michelin Defender LTX 20” ATs really the right replacement for Pirelli Scorpions?

Matt M

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derekmw

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UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan

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I am about to replace mine as well and was looking at the Dueler AT Ascent also. My research has discovered two different versions, one appears to be a little bit more of a heavy duty tire:
Dueler A/T Ascent 275 /65 R20 116H SL BSW
Dueler A/T Ascent LT275 /65 R20 126S E1 BSW
LTs are always heavier. They are engineered to support higher max load, with higher max pressure, and have more materials to achieve that. And because of that extra material, they can take more abuse before catastrophic failure occurs. The trade-off of that extra durability is cost and efficiency—i.e. best for those who do moderate to hard off-roading frequently enough to justify it.

I was looking at the 116H. I assume that is sufficient for the OEM replacement since I believe that is what the Scorpions are too.
Factory ATs are indeed SL. Both tires have the same UTQG of 640 A B. The Bridgestone has a 5 year/60k mile tread wear warranty.
 
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Matt M

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I was looking at the 116H. I assume that is sufficient for the OEM replacement since I believe that is what the Scorpions are too.
I'm not tire expert by any means but, looking at the comparison chart on Tires.com, the LT's would have a longer tread life and, according to their chart, would be a little more efficient. I do a decent amount of trail and two-track roads here in NM but don't need a "serious" off road tire. I just wonder if the longer lifespan is worth the $40 extra per tire.
 

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would be a little more efficient.
With heavier weight? Impossible in real-world use, which includes urban stop and go. Weight isn't as much a factor in steady highway cruising. There, not much energy is spent to maintain momentum. But in stop and go, more weight = more work = more energy to do the work.
 

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Matt M

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With heavier weight? Impossible in real-world use, which includes urban stop and go. Weight isn't as much a factor in steady highway cruising. There, not much energy is spent to maintain momentum. But in stop and go, more weight = more work = more energy to do the work.
Again, not a tire expert, but we're talking 8lbs a tire. Is 32lbs of added tire weight really going to make that much of a difference?
 

derekmw

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Again, not a tire expert, but we're talking 8lbs a tire. Is 24lbs of added tire weight really going to make that much of a difference?
I’m not either but unsprung weight is not a 1:1. Any weight you add to wheels, the rotating mass, causes more impact. I just know this from the days I raced in auto cross, lighter wheels even a few pounds make a difference.
 

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Again, not a tire expert, but we're talking 8lbs a tire. Is 32lbs of added tire weight really going to make that much of a difference?
Oh hell yes. It's not just static mass. It's rotational mass. Rotational mass increase exponentially with increase in speed of rotation. Even half a pound can result in significant impact.

Visit a local bicyle shop. Pick out a carbon fiber wheel and a metal alloy wheel of same diameter. Try each with both hands at each end of the axle and try to move the wheels about as they spin in your hands. Feel the difference.

Getting back on topic... The Defender MS2 will likely last longer than the Pirelli AT. UTQG of 820 vs 640. 70k mile warranty vs 50k. And that could also mean less grip.
 
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I am about to replace mine as well and was looking at the Dueler AT Ascent also. My research has discovered two different versions, one appears to be a little bit more of a heavy duty tire:
Dueler A/T Ascent 275 /65 R20 116H SL BSW
Dueler A/T Ascent LT275 /65 R20 126S E1 BSW
I have the Dueler A/T Ascent LT275/65-R20’s on my ‘23 R1T QM. Only have about 4K miles on them so far, but am very happy with them. Yeah, they’re a little heavier than the SL‘s, but not bad for an LT tire. It really doesn’t make much performance difference. I wanted the extra durability of the LT’s on my 7000+ lbs truck. As far as efficiency, I can’t really tell much difference from the OEM Pirellis. I was afraid there might be a noticeable hit with the heavier tire, but that just hasn’t been the case. I run them with a little higher air pressure, about 5-6 psi more than the OEM 48 psi recommendation. So far they are very quiet! I highly recommend them, especially the LT’s, if you do any off roading. The LT’s have a deeper tread and I expect them to last a fair while. Time will tell how they perform in the long haul, but so far, so good.
 
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I’m now about 3 weeks into my ownership of a set of Goodyear ElectricDrive AT tires (275/65R20) and couldn’t be happier. I truly never thought I’d buy a set of Goodyears as I’m a tried and true Michelin guy, but after extensive research, much soul-searching, and a bit of faith, I went with the Goodyears. They have thus far exceeded all expectations. Comfortable, quiet, slight range increase/efficiency improvement, and excellent wet/dry traction compared to the OEM pirellis (not a fan). They’re not the most aggressive from a tread standpoint (definitely on-road bias) but this fits my use case, so I’m happy. They’re weren’t cheap, yet I have zero complaints. YMMV
 

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I am about to replace mine as well and was looking at the Dueler AT Ascent also. My research has discovered two different versions, one appears to be a little bit more of a heavy duty tire:
Dueler A/T Ascent 275 /65 R20 116H SL BSW
Dueler A/T Ascent LT275 /65 R20 126S E1 BSW
I just got the Dueler A/T Ascent 275 /65 R20 116H SL BSW installed by costco. so far in my drive back home, its been super quiet compared to the standard OEM 20" tires. Tires looks nice and aggressive. I will track efficiency and report back after some miles. The old OEM scorpions ended with 2.15 m/kwh.
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