"I would never want to be stuck waiting for an EV to charge"

[SwampNut]

Hot dog?

While technically tubular, I was thinking more about those greasy, salty roller grill things. Tubes of garbage filled with more garbage that will kill you.

This argument is so weird to me.

What argument? I posted photos, statistics, and facts. They aren't opinions or debate.

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[Thebandit]

What argument? I posted photos, statistics, and facts. They aren't opinions or debate.

The argument that EV charging on road trips is more convenient or takes less time.

 

[SANZC02]

The argument that EV charging on road trips is more convenient or takes less time.

I must have missed that, did someone actually make that argument?

 

[SwampNut]

The argument that EV charging on road trips is more convenient or takes less time.

I don’t recall anyone making that argument at all. Can you quote it?

So I’ll start: sometimes it is, sometimes it’s not. There’s also the other aspect, with cited sources, that you probably spend more time per year fueling than charging.

 

[2kwik4u]

This argument is so weird to me. Like, in my ICE vehicle I can drive 800 miles to Chicago with a single, literally 5 minute stop. I've done it, many times. I'm not going to be able to do that in my R2 when I get it. Not that I necessarily want to, but it's objectively true that EV charging is far less accessible, predictable, ubiquitous, and convenient compared to gas stations. Virtually every highway exit in the country has a gas station. Without a line of cars. Where a 100% fill takes about two minutes. Charging isn't going to replicate that any time soon. It's getting close to good enough but it's certainly not better or more convenient.

I'm going to be very interested in your opinion after you've owned an EV for awhile.

I road trip in mine about once every 6wks or so. It's a complete non-issue.

 

[2kwik4u]

So I’ll start: sometimes it is, sometimes it’s not. There’s also the other aspect, with cited sources, that you probably spend more time per year fueling than charging.

I add on......

The only thing I can't do in an EV that I could do in an ICE is the "bonzai run" type trip. I once made it from Louisville to St. Louis in just over 3hrs. Mother in law was rushed to hospital, wife said "I need you here now" with a tone I hadn't heard from her in 15yrs of marriage. I drove, wildly irresponsibility, at triple digits for the majority of that trip. I would've been forced into a 20min stop in the Rivian. Otherwise, a "normal" road trip adds about an hour of "door to door" time, per 8hrs of "moving" time.

Secondarily, even with a 8+hr road trip once ever 6wks or so. I would bet money the fast charging time I've spent on road trips in an EV is less than the time I spent at gas stations over the course of a year. Just some quick math of 10min a stop, once a week is 520min/yr of "energy replenishment". That's about (21) "fast charges" at 25min a piece; or about 7 road trips a year just to break even on time spent adding energy back into the vehicle.

 

[Thebandit]

I'm going to be very interested in your opinion after you've owned an EV for awhile.

I road trip in mine about once every 6wks or so. It's a complete non-issue.

I am too. We road trip once or twice a month, usually on the weekend, usually leaving after work. We often go places that are pretty rural where charging looks sparse to nonexistent. And we're usually on fairly compressed schedules.

Charging stops will definitely take longer than gas stops, and be more frequent. We can presumably eat while charging, if there's something onsite, but I don't like the idea of being limited to whatever is right there. We usually eat in the car while on the move. But when we have the canoe and we're driving 200 miles away, staying outside town near a lake? And we want to drive around th countryside after canoeing? And still have to drive home on rural routes? That's not really going to work out. And if we're driving 500 miles to Acadia? That drive will definitely take longer and require more planning. We can't just make a 4 minute stop at a little podunk gas station whenever we're getting near empty in the woods in Maine.

I'm not sure how limiting I will find it or how annoyed the family will be about all the planning and getting to bed later.

 

[Thebandit]

Just as an example, we did a long weekend in Central NY recently. We hopped in the car, with the canoe on top, and drove the 190 or so miles to the hotel after work. Left around 6, got there around 9 and went to sleep. There's no charging at the hotel. The next morning we had breakfast at the hotel and then took a drive around the area, maybe 20-30 miles, then pulled into the launch and went canoeing for a few hours. This is a random canoe launch on a lake, no facilities or charging.

With an R2, we would be in a little bit of a pickle by now. If we've made it this far, the battery is going to be basically empty. We've traveled 250+ miles with a loaded car with a canoe on top. There's not much fast charging in this area of the state. So I have to go out of my way 10-15 minutes to a charging stop and spend 20-30 minutes taking it up as much as I can to finish out the weekend, which is going to involve a lot more driving in rural areas. Or we would have had to make a 20-30 minute stop on the way down to tank up, pushing our bedtime back.

None of this is the biggest deal in the world. None of it is a show stopper. But it's definitely extra planning and extra hassle compared to driving our Subaru, which gets 350 miles of range loaded to the gills in the dead of winter. And in rural NY we pass gas stations constantly.

 

[2kwik4u]

Just as an example, we did a long weekend in Central NY recently. We hopped in the car, with the canoe on top, and drove the 190 or so miles to the hotel after work. Left around 6, got there around 9 and went to sleep. There's no charging at the hotel. The next morning we had breakfast at the hotel and then took a drive around the area, maybe 20-30 miles, then pulled into the launch and went canoeing for a few hours. This is a random canoe launch on a lake, no facilities or charging.

With an R2, we would be in a little bit of a pickle by now. If we've made it this far, the battery is going to be basically empty. We've traveled 250+ miles with a loaded car with a canoe on top. There's not much fast charging in this area of the state. So I have to go out of my way 10-15 minutes to a charging stop and spend 20-30 minutes taking it up as much as I can to finish out the weekend, which is going to involve a lot more driving in rural areas. Or we would have had to make a 20-30 minute stop on the way down to tank up, pushing our bedtime back.

None of this is the biggest deal in the world. None of it is a show stopper. But it's definitely extra planning and extra hassle compared to driving our Subaru, which gets 350 miles of range loaded to the gills in the dead of winter. And in rural NY we pass gas stations constantly.

Have you run this scenario through ABRP?

I'll take 15-20min on the couch before making this kind of trip and run all my destinations through the planner. Make some conservative estimates and develop a plan of attack. I've not found it to be overburdening or overly time consuming.

We're in Buffalo and did Watkins Glen for the Ferrari Challenge, and then some sight seeing last July. Only change to how we would have handled that compared to the ICE vehicle I had before was the 20min of planning up front (which robbed me of a high score on Block Blast), and changing to a hotel with a charger instead of the first one we picked.

Similar trip from Buffalo over to Utica in the depths of winter to put the kids on the "Polar Express" train. Had to grab a charge on the way over at the Tesla SC near the casino, then another on the way back at one of the Applegreen rest stops. But even with wintertime range reductions, and a few other side trips it was completely doable and largely a non-issue for us, granted we were mostly along I-90.

What we've found is that we just change the routine with the boys and we're rarely waiting on a charger when road tripping. On more "adventurous" trips leaving 30min earlier, or arriving 30min later to grab a charge along the way is typically a non-issue.

We do this at stops more often now, which would've otherwise been 30min of TV at the hotel before bed. While it's admittedly not the same, it's certainly not bad.

 

[Thebandit]

Have you run this scenario through ABRP?

I'll take 15-20min on the couch before making this kind of trip and run all my destinations through the planner. Make some conservative estimates and develop a plan of attack. I've not found it to be overburdening or overly time consuming.

We're in Buffalo and did Watkins Glen for the Ferrari Challenge, and then some sight seeing last July. Only change to how we would have handled that compared to the ICE vehicle I had before was the 20min of planning up front (which robbed me of a high score on Block Blast), and changing to a hotel with a charger instead of the first one we picked.

Similar trip from Buffalo over to Utica in the depths of winter to put the kids on the "Polar Express" train. Had to grab a charge on the way over at the Tesla SC near the casino, then another on the way back at one of the Applegreen rest stops. But even with wintertime range reductions, and a few other side trips it was completely doable and largely a non-issue for us, granted we were mostly along I-90.

What we've found is that we just change the routine with the boys and we're rarely waiting on a charger when road tripping. On more "adventurous" trips leaving 30min earlier, or arriving 30min later to grab a charge along the way is typically a non-issue.

We do this at stops more often now, which would've otherwise been 30min of TV at the hotel before bed. While it's admittedly not the same, it's certainly not bad.

Yeah and that's kind of the point I'm trying to make. An extra 20 minutes of planning. Limiting yourself to a hotel with a charger. Maybe going back out to move the car so you don't hog the only charger all night. An extra 30 minutes on the road on the way there. A whole weekend that needs maybe 0 or 1 gas stops will need 2-4 charging stops, which take longer and are less convenient, plus extra planning.

Not a massive deal. But also not insignificant.

 

[2kwik4u]

But also not insignificant.

I disagree. It's a different workflow, but it's largely insignificant impacts to the day/trip.

Be curious if you feel the same after some time as an owner. I've talked to many EV owners, the only ones that I've heard of wanting to go back to ICE are those that tow on a very regular basis.

 

[SwampNut]

Limiting yourself to a hotel with a charger.

Looking back, "limit" and "opportunity" are interchangeable here. I'd call it more like compromise or just change. While I've had to do more planning and change behavior, those "limitations" have also led to new discoveries. We've done/seen things we wouldn't have unless we worked around the EV. A much nicer hotel without a price increase, the EV museum next to the Supercharger, etc.

 

[richguess]

Being a car guy I like to have a weekender or fun car in addition to my Audi Q8 Etron EV, with an R2 on order (my wife’s car is a RAV4 Prime.) Currently I have a 2007 VW Eos 3.2 VR6. I’d like to upgrade to a 911 991 Porsche in the next year or 2. I follow Cars and Bid looking. But what amazes me is the service histories with oil changes, fuel injection stuff, rod bearings, etc. Never ending. Yes, my EV needs brakes and tires and software updates. But that’s about it. Home charge 90%, solar on roof, 10 year old plus EVSE.

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