R2 w/ LiDAR, 19-inch wheels spied

[shandering]

fer because it is an error. It may be accompanied by an increase in justified braking events which would be safer, but actual phantom braking is not indicative of higher safety on its own. I could write a shitty AV algorithm that applies the brakes every 5 to 10 seconds randomly. That would be phantom braking and would not improve safety (other than limiting my top speed I guess).

So your argument would hold more weight if you said "more judicial braking algorithms increase safety, at the cost of increased false positives (phantom braking)", but flat out saying phantom braking is safer is wrong.

most cars don't have phantom braking because they do not brake for stationary objects. That's very unsafe. Some cars that don't brake for stationary vehicles are so dumb that they brake for cars in the lane next to you.

cars that do brake for stationary objects have phantom braking

In the case of tesla they have nearly no phantom braking anymore and brake for things as small as little birds crossing the road.

not all phantom braking is caused by shadows. Most of it (in the case of zoox and others) comes from misidentifying what the cars around you are going to do. There's a reason zoox doesn't drive in parking lots.

The issue with you relying on AI is you didn't consider that tesla has accident avoidance (like a driverless car) while others do not

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[Zathras]

Until someone does it and I can buy it, it’s all made up fantasy land stuff. Could be 2028 or 2038 who knows really.

Point to point by the end of the year. Everyone at Rivian is sticking to that.

 

[RayoRiv]

My take is that they won't install lidar with the LE. Most likely scenario is it will be in the 2027 model year.

I am scheduled for a Nov - Dec invite which means I would receive it most likely in early 2027. I personally don't care if it has lidar or not. Rivian has been clear that, in regards to FSD type capability, it doesn't matter if it has lidar. That is all I am really concerned about. They have said the lidar will mostly be used to train their AI LDM and then that can be shared with non lidar vehicles to achieve FSD across the board.

However, the lidar will probably come into play much later down the road when true driverless autonomy arrives. It may be that to legally have the car drive for itself without human input at all, it would need lidar installed for regulatory reasons. This is partly why Tesla has struggled to gain compliance in many places, they are camera only. They may drive themselves just fine but regulators want those tiny .001% of edge cases, that would easily be solved by lidar, worked out first and that takes a lot more miles when you are camera only.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Point to point by the end of the year. Everyone at Rivian is sticking to that.

I’m talking about anything better than L2. Current R2 setup can do point to point. RAP1/LIDAR is allegedly needed for an alleged L3/L4 that doesn’t exist. Same with Tesla. It doesn’t exist. No one actually knows what is needed bc it’s fairytale land stuff at this point to me. Until some OEM ships L3 or L4 no one actually knows what hardware is needed. They’re all guessing. Teslas been guessing for 10 years.

 

[Eric9610]

I always go back to the liability issue. And this will be the largest barrier to availability. Laws will not keep up with the speed of tech. If the tech truly works, the auto maker should take 100% of the liability but to this point they have all skirted this.

 

[Zathras]

For your entertainment value: (dons flame-proof underwear)...

 

[runwithscissors]

For your entertainment value: (dons flame-proof underwear)...

Meanwhile I ask RA if my center floor vents are on and it says no (wrong) and then I ask to turn the rear vents on high and it says sorry can only pick speeds 1-4...

 

[shandering]

I’m talking about anything better than L2. Current R2 setup can do point to point. RAP1/LIDAR is allegedly needed for an alleged L3/L4 that doesn’t exist. Same with Tesla. It doesn’t exist. No one actually knows what is needed bc it’s fairytale land stuff at this point to me. Until some OEM ships L3 or L4 no one actually knows what hardware is needed. They’re all guessing. Teslas been guessing for 10 years.

It's obvious what is needed and it is ignorant to claim otherwise. Tesla literally is manufacturing 1000s of a vehicle which they intend to do driverless with

it seems like unless you have a starlink connection your car is not doing driverless

you also need camera cleaning which no rivian will have any time soon

 

[LevelHeaded]

There should be a way to auto ignore Tesla tangents in these threads

 

[ksurfier]

My Tesla likes to brake for bridges still, prob because of that Florida incident years ago…imagine you’re cruising enjoying lord of the rings and then…..BAM…at least it was quick and painless. I’d prob miss the phantom bridge breaking if they fixed it…somehow I don’t think the R1S has ever been intimidated by bridges…

 

[shandering]

My Tesla likes to brake for bridges still, prob because of that Florida incident years ago…imagine you’re cruising enjoying lord of the rings and then…..BAM…at least it was quick and painless. I’d prob miss the phantom bridge breaking if they fixed it…somehow I don’t think the R1S has ever been intimidated by bridges…

Braking for bridges has to do with using cruise control radar and choosing to brake for stationary objects.

Exactly why vision is superior to cruise control radar and anyone that claims otherwise is ignorant.

Cruise control radar is not adding safety

 

[Rade]

Does make one wonder if this gives hope to "late 2026" for Gen3 Lidar inclusion in builds... I mean, if the hardware is fully validated, even if not turned on, might they start including it soon. Who knows.

Agreed! It would be nice to see it for the 4Q26 / 1Q27.

 

[iamnid]

I always go back to the liability issue. And this will be the largest barrier to availability. Laws will not keep up with the speed of tech. If the tech truly works, the auto maker should take 100% of the liability but to this point they have all skirted this.

There's zero incentive for the automaker to do this.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I will say if someone is able one day to get a launch edition with RAP1/LIDAR, that would then be a great deal bc then you get the new hardware AND Autonomy+ included. I don’t think Rivian would do this, but if they did then that would be worth waiting. But you just don’t know. Seems unlikely to me bc I feel like they’re giving lifetime Autonomy+ to get people to buy now.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

My Tesla likes to brake for bridges still, prob because of that Florida incident years ago…imagine you’re cruising enjoying lord of the rings and then…..BAM…at least it was quick and painless. I’d prob miss the phantom bridge breaking if they fixed it…somehow I don’t think the R1S has ever been intimidated by bridges…

Ours almost killed us. I had a few phantom breaking instances, I mean, I barely used AP anyway, but a couple that were not a complete WTF unexpected moment.

But one time, actually here in Orlando where we now live, we were coming from Universal, wife, daughter and myself (so this made the event even more infuriating). We're on the expressway/toll-road right in the middle of DTO, so the main traffic is over on I-4 to the right (we're headed north). We pass an access ramp to the expressway where a car is entering, they're behind us, expecting to merge over - they get over into our lane a decent distance behind us, and the f***ing Tesla just JAMS on the brakes. No idea, not sure if it was a semi- truck on the I-4 side that triggered it (like the high mounted lights), a reflection, it was late afternoon, clear weather.

The car behind us locked up their brakes, I grabbed the wheel and started to ditch to the right, while trying to slow down AND not have the car behind me plow into us. Fortunately the other driver was paying attention - I was too as I don't have complete faith in these systems - and there wasn't any other vehicles around us at the time. Other driver after looking at us like WHAT THE F***?!?! Just drove on, I sorted my head out, drove home - MANUALLY. Never used it again. Also returned the Tesla 2-3 months early from the lease - which, BTW, the intake staff at the showroom/service center f***ed up and almost got me arrested (since they didn't file/return documents correctly, and it appeared I stole the vehicle).

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